[mountain_peak]

> central Canada

This is part of the issue; the GTA is solidly in the east (the centre of Canada is in Manitoba), but when someone says, "eastern Canada", one automatically thinks "Nova Scotia", but Toronto is a relatively short drive from New York City. That being said, I understand that in most cases, "central" is referring to population, industry, finance (not fashion - that's Montrėal).

Regarding the site, the exhibit's producer, Zbigniew Stachniak, wrote an excellent book [0] on the world's first truly portable computer: the MCM/70 - which ran APL (yay!).

[0] https://www.mqup.ca/Books/I/Inventing-the-PC2

[cmrdporcupine]

Toronto is also a relatively short drive from Chicago. It's actually far more similar to Chicago than to coastal NYC.

It is really geographically "midwest" by US standards, not "east"

When I was in elementary school in Alberta in the 80s we called this "central Canada." And that's how I still think of it. But there's a growing trend especially in Alberta to call this "down east" which is in my mind a very political way of "othering" what is actually geographically quite central and economically and demographically as well.

[mountain_peak]

Indeed - Chicago is considered "midwest" even though it is geographically in the eastern US. Maybe that's New York City-centrism from long ago?

Edmonton is as far west from the geographical centre of Canada as Toronto is east. I think it's a a bit of a stretch to call the GTA "geographically central". Economically and demographically, definitely.

The Weather Network, which really should consider geographic markers only, calls the GTA "central Canada". I think there would be an outcry if they started saying "eastern Canada".

[cmrdporcupine]

In general when I think of "eastern" for both Canada and the United States I think "coastal." Yes, I guess Vermont is considered northeast and it's not on the Atlantic, but it's really not far from it.

And that's ... definitely not Ontario. Unless you count the lakes, which I mean, sure, why not?

Or another definition of eastern might be "along the Appalachian range". And again, def not Ontario.

Quebec is more up for debate.

Most of southern Ontario is also most definitely "midwest" from a "biome" POV. The first couple times I went to Sioux Falls, South Dakota for work I was thinking it would feel like the prairies, like Manitoba or Sask or something. Nope, it looked identical to southern Ontario. In fact it was the same latitude, even. The vegetation and terrain, I felt like I was in Essex County or something.

If I'd gotten in a car and driven home, it would have been directly east on the interstate and it would have been same same same corn and soy fields, maples, oaks, etc for 16 hours.

[mitthrowaway2]

I think in terms of time zones. Toronto's time zone is Eastern Time, so it's in the East.

[cmrdporcupine]

You need to think about just how long you'd be driving east from Toronto before you finally hit the Atlantic. (And not just the widening of the St Lawrence at Quebec City, but let's say... where the water is fully salty and tidal... which is apparently around Matane, directly north of New Brunswick).

Like, 20 hours of driving. And then to get to e.g. Halifax or Sydney NS, which aren't even our furthest east points, another what.. 15? 16? hours of driving. And then a ferry out to Newfoundland?

Toronto is really quite quite far west of the easternmost points in the country. Calling it "east" seems odd.

Especially when you consider when people were settling this country they were doing so by going up the St Lawrence and into the lakes. Or had taken the railway from Halifax, etc. They had traveled a long way before they got here. It wouldn't have felt "east" to them at all.

[mitthrowaway2]

You're right. For the people settling this country, they were traveling west from Europe across the Atlantic, so the country is coded as to how far West you have to travel. Quebec would be "Middle Canada". Ontario should be Western Canada; Manitoba should be Westerner Canada; Saskatchewan should be West Westerner Canada; Alberta should be called Westerer Westerner Canada, and British Columbia should be Better-Come-From-The-Other-Side Canada.

[t-3]

> Indeed - Chicago is considered "midwest" even though it is geographically in the eastern US. Maybe that's New York City-centrism from long ago?

It's the mountains. East of Appalachian is the east (and south of the Mason-Dixon line in the east is the south), between Appalachian and Rockies is Midwest, the wet part of the rest is northwest, the dry part is southwest.

[coryrc]

Appalachian mountains.

[PeterWhittaker]

Ah, our geography. I live in Arnprior, about half an hour west of Ottawa (technically, my house is a couple of clicks from the Ottawa border, but we don't really start counting until the burbs).

Anyway. I live closer to James Bay than DC. Let that sink in a moment (and sink is what you will do if you attempt the drive).

[cmrdporcupine]

It's true, I should have prefixed what I said about Ontario as with "southern Ontario"

Our province is huge, and east past about e.g. Peterborough it's a very different province. And north past e.g. Barrie. And then again past Thunder Bay, etc etc.

Southern Ontario is the north eastern tip of the midwest. Eastern Ontario is the western end of the northeast. Northern Ontario is... huge.

[soperj]

We used to have bumper stickers that said "Let those eastern bastards freeze in the dark". Funny to mention this on an article referencing the PET.

[cf100clunk]

That was former AB PM Ralph Klein's infamous quote.

[soperj]

It wasn't. Those were bumper stickers in the 80s referencing the National Energy Program. Very in line with the "What does Petro-Canada stand for?" - Pierre Elliot Trudeau Rips Off Canada.

[cf100clunk]

Point conceded, although I hasten to add Ralph's infamous "Eastern bums and creeps" quote to the mix.

Another Alberta bumper sticker from the early 1980s foreclosure era said something like: ''Please, God, let there be another oil boom and this time I won't blow all my money away!"

[soperj]

He had a lot of good ones. He's got a funny history, could have easily been the liberal leader in Alberta.

[fidotron]

> That being said, I understand that in most cases, "central" is referring to population, industry, finance (not fashion - that's Montrėal).

And that shift of centrality from Montreal to Toronto was surprisingly recent too, very much post war.

Montreal, and Quebec, absolutely feel like a separate country from the rest.

[b112]

It's referring to the fact that Ontario and Quebec were Upper and Lower Canada, and as the country grew, things to the "West" and "East" were seen in that light, even though it doesn't make sense centuries later.

[cf100clunk]

Sports leagues mirror those commmon conceptions. Toronto is always put in the East alignment of pro sports leagues. Apart from a rough patch for the CFL in the 1980s when the Winnipeg Blue Bombers were moved over to the East, they and the Jets have always been in the West.

[soperj]

The Leafs were in the West. LA beat them in the '93 conference finals after the infamous Gretzky high stick, they would have played the Canadiens in the finals that year. They lost in the '94 conference finals to the Canucks.

[cf100clunk]

I forgot about that! They were in the Central Division of the Campbell Conference, which was renamed the Western Conference the next year, and didn't return to the Eastern until 1998-99.

My little grey cells don't seem to store Leafs info well. Oh, did you hear? Bill Barilko disappeared. He was on a fishing trip.