[iLemming]

Are you even reading what I wrote? What's with the childish tone, someone dropped your keyboard rate when you're a kid or something? Emacs is a tool, not a religion. There are plenty of talented, accomplished programmers who can relate to what I said, and never even used Emacs. There's no "Emacs setup" for me, just like there's no "ricing my browser" - I do expect my web browser to work exactly the way I want (or at least as much I can get out of it) - that requires managing extensions, keybindings, extension settings, security options, disabling some annoying features, etc. It's an instrument, and requires the same type of "maintenance" and tweaking. Sure, it might not be as constant as for Emacs, but after all - web-browser is a targeted tool, Emacs is a universal one.

[tptacek]

Whoah, whoah, whoah, you two, this is a happy post, not an angry post. Nothing to get wound up over! Part of the point is that you can both just go and do you!

[iLemming]

We're not fighting, we're just "emotionally explaining things to one another". That's what my wife says to calm our dog, when he makes a concerned and scared face over a regular, non-confrontational conversation. Just to be clear, I'm not comparing you to our dog, I just thought it's a funny anecdote.

[peacebeard]

"Emacs is a tool, not a religion" yeah that's my point. You framed not investing in it as a delusion. We can all agree on the importance of tooling. I am responding to the tone of the sermon you wrote.

[iLemming]

Like the cartoon character once said: "Yeah, sure, I mean, if you spend all day shuffling words around, you can make anything sound bad"... Re-read again what I wrote. Specifically about delusions. I can't believe I have to re-quote myself just to prove you my point about something you just made up in your head.

[peacebeard]

I'll re-quote it for you:

> Thinking that you're a programmer that doesn't want to constantly build software for your own sake is a delusion - it's like a cook that hopes to turn on the stove only in the restaurant, but won't touch a knife at home.

> Emacs is the cook's home kitchen.

The two sentences are adjacent. I read them as connected. If you meant them to be unrelated, I hope that this sheds light on our disagreement.

[iLemming]

How often do you fish out a single word in a paragraph that has no semantic, emotional meaning to you personally and automatically flip the entire book, just because of one word?

What I meant is that viewing Emacs merely as a means to achieve a singular goal and to extract specific value (e.g. "I've heard Magit is nice") is shortsighted - approaching it as a strategic, long-term investment yields far greater returns. I'm not preaching for absolutely every programmer to use it.

Come on, now tell me how I think of everyone who doesn't approve my web-browser tweaking habits as "catastrophic failures"...

[peacebeard]

Hmm, not quite an apology, but sort of a tacit acknowledgement that what you wrote wasn’t quite what you meant. Good enough for me.

[iLemming]

You keep doubling down on your own perverted reality you composed out of thin air and somehow I have to apologize? Can you be I dunno, less emotional and more substantive? There's no controversy in what I wrote - it is pretty simple and straightforward:

Programmers write programs. That's the definition of the job. Any personal tweaks - scripts, snippets, extensions, packages, configs (for VSCode, IntelliJ, Vim and yes Emacs too) are also programs. Saying: "I don't want to maintain my programs" sounds to me like saying: "I don't want to be a programmer". It doesn't matter what I use - Emacs, Sublime or Macromedia Dreamweaver - configuring and maintaining it is not "kind of a job", "part of my job", or "someone else's job". That is my job as a programmer. Period. End of discussion.

Why the fuck you keep pouring your own made up shit from one pitcher into another, thinking it's about to turn into gold, is beyond me. And somehow I'm the dude that should "relax". Well, sure, let me then apologize for my inability to explain to you something that a six year old would get off the bat.

[iLemming]

Now allow me to explain to you kindly, why you're fucking wrong here. You probably have no idea how difficult it is to write anything meaningful in English. Especially these days. For someone for whom English is not a second or even a third language, it can be an enormously hellacious ordeal. I take pride in my English. I think it's quite possible I would never write so colorfully in any other of the three languages I have. For me, each paragraph has meaning, has voice, its own character. It takes time to write. It takes patience, humility, imagination. Machines can do it already, but their language still lacks something. Something ephemeral. Something that would make us watch for two hours, humans doing crazy acrobatics of Cirque du Soleil. I wonder how long would we watch robots doing the same? Well, who knows, maybe we'd be watching robots dancing for two hours. LLMs are getting better with languages too. Which makes it more difficult to write. Properly structured text gets blamed for being generated. Sometimes I deliberately don't fix mistakes, even though it makes my eye twitch. Darn, I'm so pissed I can't use em-dash anymore, goddammit.

I don't owe you an explanation why I do it, why write anything at all. Why HN. I'll say it anyway. I do it because I still recognize people here. Living, dreaming, learning, fighting, hating, daring, loving people. I don't get paid for it, I don't seek recognition, I am not trying to build a name. I share my opinions because nothing is more important for our species than storytelling. And we need to share stories, listen to them, re-live them, learn from them. That's why many of us would go to watch Nolan's rendition of a 2700-year-old story. Even if we don't like the movie already.

And then someone like you comes, shits all over your charming writing, compelled to do it just because they see a word they don't like. Well, honestly, fuck you. Yeah, not nice, but I'd rather be kind and tell you the truth. You wouldn't be saying the shit you replied to me with to my face. Not because I have muscles, or am intimidating, or weak and miserable, no. But because you're definitely not a jerk, or an idiot. I wouldn't have to spend hours wasting on your ass for no good fucking reason. Seriously, I am a solo father with two kids, it's fucking 1:30AM and I'm having to deal with this shit, because writing for me is still fucking hard. English is beautiful, but hard. Come on, kid, think sometimes. For the sake of fellow humans.