[lll-o-lll]

> The fish rots from the head.

The old adage that the people elect the governance they deserve; comes to mind. The concepts of Virtue, Honour, Duty, and Justice have been declining in the West over a very long period (this is not a US specific thing). The rotting head reflects the rotting society.

> It's a sucker's game to aspire to selflessly serve the greater good when the most powerful people in the land are brazenly corrupt

You don’t act honourably because that will “get you ahead”. You act honourably because it is right.

[kiba]

You don't need "virtue", "honour", and "duty" to have NOT have voted the way people did. It is plain to see which chosen leader will torch the nation and which will not, regardless of people's distaste for the establishment politicians.

It is worse than self interest. It is brazen ignorance.

[MyHonestOpinon]

I am seeing this phenomenon in my country. Once people discover that their beloved leader is corrupt, they just justify with "all politicians are the same". Society becomes so cynic that it very hard to bring change. Politicians are considered corrupt by default, I don't know how that ends.

[afavour]

> You don’t act honourably because that will “get you ahead”. You act honourably because it is right.

As much as I would like to believe that’s true I don’t think it is.

You act honourably because society incentivises you to. To act dishonourably is to be disadvantaged, to be shamed, to be cast out. That is the part that’s missing today.

[jdlshore]

I see where you’re coming from, but something about this framing bothers me.

I think acting honorably has to come from within. It’s something that people need to do regardless of rewards or incentives. Now, how we create a culture that actually does so… that has to come from society. But, imo, if people only act honorably because they’re rewarded for it, and they don’t when no one is looking… that’s not acting honorably at all.

[lovemenot]

You can both be right. I live in a high trust society (Japan), but was raised elsewhere. When I first came here, there were times I had to suppress my instinct to take opportunistic advantage. That was intrinsic motivation.

Later, I had adapted to the culture around me. Such instincts rarely arise as it had become extrinsic.

[afavour]

My pessimistic take is that the majority of the population will simply never do that. Look at organized religion. One of its key promises is “behave in life and you’ll get everything you could ever dream of in the afterlife”. I don’t think it’s coincidental.

[pixl97]

> You act honourably because it is right.

Well, and because it's not typically fatal in very short order.

The problem comes in when honor makes you a target to erase by people more powerful than you. Being dead right gets you nowhere.

[GuinansEyebrows]

> The old adage that the people elect the governance they deserve; comes to

this idea has always bothered me. i think people (even ones i disagree with) deserve better.