[hungryhobbit]

This is both true and insightful, but the "its us capitalists vs. communists" framing obscures some very important details.

For one, "Communism" is presented as a single monolith, but it's not: it's socialism PLUS despotism. The despotism part is really important! China/Russia/etc. fail because they try and control things top-down, instead of letting the market decide.

However, you can have socialism without despotism! Tons of European countries are far more socialist, but no less democratic than America (many are more democratic).

So yes, America vs. Russia/China and Capitalist vs. Communist are relevant frames ... but don't let them obscure the fact that you can have a successful, democratic country .. without doing what America does (and giving all control to corporations).

[riazrizvi]

They're not independent. They are the systematic consequences of a naive intelligentsia pressing their ideals that are not grounded in precedent. They are susceptible to manipulative despotic takeover. The pattern keeps repeating. Across geographies large and small.

[watwut]

China has pretty much market economy and is not socialist at all. These economic changes happened years ago. Russia has no communism either.

China is despotic in its treatment of political dissent and human rights, but not in economy.