[mden]

Can you explain what your point really was then? Belittling the idea of hotlines seemed central in your messaging and the possible exploitation of data more of a secondary thing.

It's fine to be cynical but it's also good to remember that there are real people that do care and try to improve the world as well.

[some_random]

Most people don't believe in incremental progress anymore, either it works 100% of the time and solves everything forever or it's a failure and you probably wanted it to fail because you're evil.

[timcobb]

No I believe that what you have with the 11 percent decrease is reflective of diversity among people and what causes crisis. Suicide hotlines work for some people in some cases, that is undeniable. But it's not incremental in that you're not going to then iterate on the hotline and make it more effective and one day we've got 20% and so on. That won't be the case because the hotline is just not appealing for many people. It's good for the people it's good for, but that doesn't mean it's not a civilizational CYA/"not my problem".

[voxic11]

Are you under the impression that hotlines are the only intervention that is being explored?

[timcobb]

No.

[some_random]

You already called suicide hotlines capitalist, I don't have any respect for your opinion on this matter.

[giantg2]

Not the OP, but I saw it as a bandaid. Creating a hotline vs fixing underlying societal issues is a quick fix but doesn't fix the real drivers of the longterm increases.

[IAmBroom]

Do you keep bandaids in your house? Or do you rely purely on the Emergency Room a/o "toughing it out"?

Bandaids are useful. And can save measurable numbers of lives.

[timcobb]

Sure, concretely, my point was that hotlines are a very capitalist feeling thing for me. Probably because of trying to deal with corporiations, from monopolies/utilities to things like airlines. My experience in this realm has been one of alienation. So, taking the hotline and applying it to people in suicidal crisis is like peak alienation in my mind.

Personally, I'm not anti-capitalist, but capitalism to me is tied up conceptually with money and expedience. Feelings, in my opinion, are sort of in a different human realm.

But yes, for sure, that alienation as I allege it, is probably good for many people in crisis who are uncomfortable with the people around them. However, the question of why it is that such people aren't comfortable with anyone around them is the bigger one in my mind.

> Please drink responsibily

To me, although they work, suicide hotlines appear to be a naked corporate CYA, just like gambling and other addiction hotlines. Civilization will beat you down, won't give you health insurance except for a few free COVID shots (then, suddenly, people can totally mobilize to administer collective healthcare), but hey when you've just about had it, here's a hotline you can call (and we'll sell your data hahahahaha sucker).

[watwut]

They are literally government paid social service you can call without additional charge. What the hell is capitalist about it?

Also Dutch give you health insurance beyond covid shot.

[timcobb]

> What the hell is capitalist about it?

The rest, everything else.

It's darkly amusing to me we don't get healthcare here in the US but we do get suicide hotlines.

EDIT: wouldn't be surprised if Trump defunded/privatized suicide hotlines using companies run by the Trump Org.

[yladiz]

> The rest, everything else.

What are you specifically talking about? What is “everything else”?

[timcobb]

Existence, where you're just thrown out there to sink or swim and that's thats. If you're lucky you have parents and/or friends who can help you. If you're not, well... good luck!

[watwut]

Is that reaction to Dutch, German or French social support? Cause all three provide serious support and are the west.

[KennyBlanken]

Why are you continuing to argue with someone who from their second response or third response in the thead - is at best disingenuous?

[timcobb]

Brutal that you would think I am being disingenuous based on my responses. Sad for me genuinely.

[some_random]

What's capitalist about it? It works.