[rglullis]

Not only your whole argument is pure conjecture, it's completely orthogonal to my original objection. People are just throwing completely silly takes as "python does not provide the abstractions to build and manage complex codebases" and this is demonstrably false. Let's just drop this line of discussion, because it's getting beyond ridiculous.

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The funny thing is, I mostly agree with the core premise of the article: shipping today a functional proof of concept in Rust is not that more difficult than doing it from Python, and Rust has become the default choice for high performance libraries, so one might as well just go all-in Rust. But this has a lot more to do with real shortcomings of Python (performance, packaging and multi-platform distribution) than "Python does not provide the abstractions to manage complex codebases".

[OutOfHere]

Your original objection is altogether irrelevant. It and Python miss the point of what matters, which is the end result in teams. And I never actually said Rust; you did. Rust is not the answer to everything. It is easy to spot a religious zealot as you are for Python -- these people are the worst for the Python community as their blindness prevents from making the hard changes necessary for keeping up with the times.

Using your logic, someone could similarly argue that C is a perfectly fine language if used with appropriate tooling which checks for errors, but it would be a similarly bogus argument.

[rglullis]

The thread started with "Python lack abstractions to help thinking n large scale systems".

I am not saying Python typing story is perfect in reducing errors or making code safe, I am just saying that the abstractions to "help manage large scale systems" are there.

No talk about "the end result in teams". No talk about "adoption on startups". I just called out a ridiculous, demonstrably false claim and you for some reason want to completely redefine the discussion around your opinion.

[OutOfHere]

For the record, what I stated is fact, not opinion. Python is a fine language for the disciplined lone developer, but a terrible one for most teams. And it is not up to you to suppress this fact as you surely seem to want to do.

[rglullis]

If you want to make the case that Python is too flexible and it does not have guardrails for less experienced developers and undisciplined teams, I'd agree 10000%. I'm still traumatized by my time working in an academic setting and having to make sense of some bioinformatics packages.

If you want to make the case that some other language makes a better fit for a world where LLMs and people can work at the same time and need to deal with complex codebases, fine.

You can even make the case where language expressiveness is less desirable now that LLMs can deal with implementation details and "engineers" can go by simply with English and UML.

These would all be interesting arvuments and worthy of a conversation. But again, this has nothing to do with the original point of the discussion.

[OutOfHere]

I am not going to sit back and let you fool users into an incorrect conclusion falsely insinuating the safety of a Python project when I know that it isn't safe due to the pervasive poor team discipline that hounds most teams. You're just complaining that your scam got busted.

I think Python could be okay as long as appropriate tooling is aggressively added to the project right at its start, with strict CI enforcement. At that point it residually becomes a culture issue which remains poor.

[rglullis]

> let you fool users into an incorrect conclusion

You continue to argue over something that was not on the table. That tells me that you just have an axe to grind.

> At that point it residually becomes a culture issue which remains poor.

Ok, so we are clear that the language itself is not missing the abstractions. I guess that's all I wanted to hear. Thank you, we are done.