[a_c_s]

Am I the only one to have pleasant experience flying?

I usually travel 2-4 times a year by myself as a single male. I plan for security (eg. I don't try to bring along liquids and wear shoes that are easily removed) and haven't had to wait in a security line longer than 15 minutes in the US in 6+ years.

I have been pulled aside twice to be patted down by the TSA, neither of which invasive nor did they get near my genitals. In contrast I have also been patted down by airport security in Belgium (much more invasive, didn't touch crotch) and been frisked twice by police in the USA (very invasive, definitely did touch crotch). [I have no knowledge of the female experience of being frisked - unfortunately I suspect a much higher level of both discomfort and inappropriate groping]

I don't like that our security is based stupid rules instead of smart security analysis, but the level of vitriol I see in the internet is totally disproportionate to my experience. The worst part of flying for me is getting stuck in the security line behind some person who still doesn't know full bottles of water aren't allowed through security and then try to argue with the TSA agents in an attempt to save $4 - and given that I still get through the line often under 10 minutes, that is more of pet peeve than a real issue worth complaining about.

[bzbarsky]

The issue is not the time it takes to clear security. The issue is whether it makes you feel like shit to clear it.

If it doesn't make you feel like shit given how airport security works right now, I respectfully submit your shit-meter is calibrated wrong.

But also, two points:

1) Your flying experience would be quite different with kids.

2) The flying experience varies very widely by airport. Often by terminal within airport. Flying Virgin America out of BOS is a very different proposition from flying Virgin America out of SFO, and also quite different from flying United out of BOS.

[a_c_s]

I tried to make my situation clear so as to avoid making it seem like I was commenting on other people's situations. Not everyone can easily avoid taking liquids along for example, and I certainly don't want to imply that people in other situations than mine 'invite' security hassles.

But part of what I'm trying to understand is why any of the current rules "should" make me feel like shit to go through - taking a few things out of my bag and removing my shoes are easy and quick. [Of course I sympathize with people who have horror stories, but I don't think everyone posting on HN, Slashdot and Reddit have personally been treated egregiously].

What is it I am missing? Is there a moral principle people of having to go through security people are upset about? Or frustration that the TSA is a large part security theatre? Or is it that so many people traveling do so in configurations that get much more hassle than I do - traveling with children, unavoidable liquids, medical devices, etc. ?

[smsm42]

For me, it is a feeling of being subjected to stupid and demeaning procedures which exist only for show. When I pass, for example, Israeli security - which may take more time, but does it in a completely different way - I do not feel this, because I feel I understand what they are doing and why. TSA has no real reason to grope my ass and my balls - they do it because somebody somewhere decided they should, and his reasons probably were nothing but covering his ass in case something happens.

[bzbarsky]

I appreciate you making your situation clear. I just pointed out that you are indeed correct that other situations end up very different, since I have experience with both.

> taking a few things out of my bag and removing my shoes are easy and quick

There's also taking off your belt or suspenders (and then trying to keep your pants from falling off, or risking arrest if they do), taking off your watch, putting your wallet on a belt where random people can make off with it, and having to choose between a pat-down search or standing in a machine with your arms over your head for a while, all for no particularly good reason.

Even the shoes thing is pretty ridiculous, especially given the state of cleanliness of the floors in airports, speaking as someone who distinctly recalls a time when you just wore your shoes through the metal detector, just like you still do in most countries. (Oh, and I should note that at Reagan National there are booties available at the security checkpoint so all the Congress-folk won't have to deal with the dirty floors like people at other airports.)

Back to your questions, in order:

The frustration _is_ in large part about the security theater aspect. Little things like having to throw out the water bottle that Israeli security already cleared through, the completely arbitrary and nonsensical rules about liquids, the perfunctory pat-downs whose only purpose is to be annoying so as to force people into the scanners, the ineffective scanners, and the general disproportionality of the response to the problem being solved. Basically, I would be a lot more OK with more stringent security if I felt there were a point to it, not just official ass-covering.

The other part of the frustration is that even the rules that are in place are enforced pretty arbitrarily. At some airports, in some security lanes, walking through a metal detector with a sleeping baby in a sling is OK; at others they will force you to take the baby out (waking him up) and hold in arms through the metal detector. You don't know which until you show up at the metal detector: it seems to be the TSA agent's call. Same thing for whether the 3-month-old's booties have to come off and go through the X-ray, just in case you stuck 3-4 grams of explosive in the soles or something.

And a last, most important, problem I have with all this is that I _do_ travel with kids a good bit. And my concern is that my children are learning that having to take off your clothes and be searched because someone randomly decides so is OK. The basic fact that government power is, and should be, limited and that there is such a thing as human dignity is that much harder to teach to kids who're dealing with airports on a regular basis. And _that_, of all the TSA activities, is what I despise them most: that they're in the business of making people be used to being treated like criminals.

[lancewiggs]

I feel sad that you find being crotch-groped by anyone acceptable, let alone someone who has asserted legal authority to do so. Would you like your 13 year old son and daughter to be exposed to the same process? How about someone who has been a victim of abuse? Yes it's amazing to fly through the air, but the US airports, security and airlines do the level best to convert that miracle into torture.

[a_c_s]

I never said crotch-grabbing was acceptable. I said that compared to being frisked by the police the TSA pat-downs I have experienced were unobtrusive. Given this, the outrage towards the TSA seems disproportionate, especially given that the TSA only affects people who fly whereas police tactics affect everyone in the country.

Is there a disparity or is it that Slashdot and HN post articles about TSA abuses but not non-technical police abuses? Most people don't even seem to think frisking is an abuse of power, (though it seems like you may disagree with that), so why the outrage at the TSA but not the police?

[mikeash]

You're lucky and compliant. I don't think your experience is the norm, and my experience certainly doesn't match.

It's always a delightful start to a journey to hold your struggling infant in your bare socks while some college dropout pretending to be a lab tech tests your formula for explosive residue and your wife figures out how to cram the stroller through the X-ray machine. Definitely try to avoid flying now.