[xp84]

But if we didn’t use ••• menus everywhere then some parts of the UI might be cLuTtErEd!!! The worst sin of computing.

To think that we used to trust mere mortals - without even a signing certificate or developer membership - with the power to customize every toolbar in a Microsoft application, and to set every font and color for the whole UI of the system. People made their computer environments ugly in some cases. And it was fine, because they owned those freaking computers, so who the heck has any business telling them not to?

Sorry, clearly it bugs me a lot how much we’ve lost.

[bombcar]

It's not just what we've lost, it's an incredible disservice to "non-nerds" - old DOS programs may have been annoying and cluttered, but everything was right there and more importantly, it didn't change so you could learn what you needed and just work with it.

We could go back and forth on things like "the ribbon" being better or worse, but the fact that it changes depending on window size is an incredible sin. Hello, everyone! Learn how to click a tiny 5x5 pixel arrow or lose your menu items forever!

[xp84]

It's like a compromise was made at some point where they decided that in order to get what they predicted would be slightly higher adoption, it's okay to usher in a world where most consumer-facing software is essentially impossible to become a 'power user' of, because of abridged ('decluttered') functionality, lack of keyboard shortcuts, extreme lag caused by excessive animation, and a UI that changes for fashion reasons every few months.

I look at retail for examples of this. If you watch an experienced cashier who interacts with a system all day, they have perfect muscle memory of the keyboard or keypad, and operate it so fast that you would have to ask them to slow down to understand what they're doing.

Now many of those have been replaced with touchscreens, which are noticeably worse -- since the UI is never fast, you have to stop and wait for the next UI to appear after many of the steps, instead of letting the keyboard buffer do it for you, which worked great on a decades-old system. But, I assume the companies who allowed that replacement believed it was worth it to be able to onboard a new cashier just a bit quicker, with a UI that looks just like the iPads that they were raised on, complete with big unlabeled icons and "three lines" or "•••" buttons.

[bombcar]

I’m always reminded of the old text UIs at Fry’s Electronics - a salesman could slam in all the keystrokes necessary to print your pick slip before the screen had even finished loading the first inventory. It was pretty impressive.

Meanwhile I live in a world where opening five Salesforce tabs locks them all up.

[titzer]

The UI wouldn't be cluttered if the keys on the...keyboard...did stuff. Now that vibe-coding has broken me out of my decades-long irrational fear of GUI programming, I've recently been circling back on all the UI patterns I have just accepted. One missing one is all those F1...F12 keys. I remember those doing stuff in the DOS days. I fantasize about a computer where the menus are at the bottom of the screen and line up with the Fn keys on the keyboard. I know...it might be possible for even grandma to figure that one out.

[xp84]

Arguably the trend to touchscreens could have given a lot of help to the novice user by having labeled buttons - onscreen FKeys if you will. But we seem to have used touchscreens to show pictures fullscreen, with controls that disappear until you swipe or touch something just the right way.

Fkeys are arguably a huge tragedy, here we have keys, twelve of them, that could have been used for simple one-fingered operation, but they were put to use pretty sparingly for a long time (basically F2 and Alt-F4 were the only common ones most people used, with F1 for Help and F11 often used for Full Screen as honorable mention) so the laptop manufacturers reused them, leading to a world where they go from being the easiest and best keyboard shortcut keys, to one of the worst, since you probably need to teach people how to find and use a 'Fn' key to use them.

[titzer]

Touchscreen UIs definitely could be made a lot better. For example, long-press has always annoyed me. Why isn't there a modifier button that allows selecting the interaction mode before touching (e.g. a mode button separate from the thing being clicked on, that can also be clicked on with one finger)? Similarly, wouldn't it be nice if there was a way to know, before clicking, what a button might do, and whether that could be undone? Steep, steep asks, I know.

[bombcar]

I’d love to use those keyboards that can light keys to flash the key combo for the menu items.

It seems now it’s not worth learning the keystrokes because everything is a website or changes randomly. Ah, for the days when Excel supported Lotus 1-2-3 shortcut mode for decades.