[phaedrus044]

Aristotle's Poetics was / is one of the oldest story structures. It doesnt get used as much anymore though. It was also quite simple right? I remember there being two variants - one was quite simply - Beginning, Middle and the end. And the other was a two part storytelling structure of Complication and Denouement. Most film stories are 5 act structures these days - audiences expect a lot more sophistication, with atleast a 2 arc entanglement.

A lot of hollywood's story telling circles around two predominant structures - the hero and saving the cat (or damsel). As of late, that trope isnt quite working as much. A majority of the films that are made are of the genre drama, not action/adventure the two structures struggle.

I have a copy of John's book and have read it. Been down this rabbit hole for a few years now :) Thanks for sharing though. appreciate it.

[Balgair]

If you really want a trip try out K.M. Weiland's Archetypes work:

https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Archetypal-Character-Arcs-Jou...

She has it all online for free here too, with a good comments section:

https://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/how-to-write-arc...

The work ends up being a bit pop-psych in a strange but interesting way. A lot to learn there and take home, not ust for story writers.

[phaedrus044]

Awesome. Will check it out. Thank you.

This predominantly seems to be around character arcs (how a character evolves over a story) vs the overall narrative arc? Its interesting neverthless.

[Balgair]

Weiland is of the mode that how a character changes over a story is the plot.

She generally separates out the internal state of the protagonist from their external state.

She has 3 arc types: positive, flat, and negative.

Positive arcs are the typical Hero's journey (along with the other 5 archetypes of the title). The protagonist comes back changed in a good way and the story world is better in gestalt. Her concepts of the Truth, the Lie, the Ghost, the Need, and the Want are all intertwined here and are developed in other books and on her website. Positive change arc are 'comedies' in the classical Greek sense.

Flat arcs have the protagonist already in possession of the Truth and mostly have them affecting the story world with that Truth. Sounds boring, but they tend to be the most memorable characters for audiences.

Negative arcs come in 3 varieties that I won't bore you with. Generally, the protagonist rejects the Truth and embraces the Lie. These are 'tragedies' in the classical Greek sense.

Her overall structure is on a 11 beat framework that fits nicely with 3, 4, or 5 act structure (she has a lot to say about that).

I would highly recommend her work for deep dives into narrative and story structure.

John Yorke's Into the Woods is also a great read:

https://www.amazon.com/Into-Woods-Five-Act-Journey-Story/dp/...

He dives more into the 'why' when it comes to the reason we tell stories at all.

Both he and Weiland (among others) have convinced me that 'story' is one of the more powerful things in our world.

[phaedrus044]

"story' is one of the more powerful things in our world."

Absolutely. It is the engine for civilization and the operating system for human belief.

[adamgordonbell]

Very cool!

I never read poetics, but merely heard Aaron Sorkin explain it in his master class. But he was big on it, and explained it was "objective + obstacle = conflict."

Sorkin said he loves court rooms for the reason that the aristotelian(sp?) story structure is so legible. Sports movies I guess would also fit into that.

I'm sure its too simple for your goals, but for a lay person understanding of why a story works: "Someone wants something, pursues it and then meets resistance." is a great summary. Much more general than the hero's journey.

Good luck with your project.

[phaedrus044]

Usually when you are defining the character arcs, you'd set the goals, drive motivation for each of them. At the end of the story is about the characters. We have something called Character Presence, that does that breakdown, to ensure that's solid. The story is the wrapper around that, setting momentum and pace.

You are spot on.