[aneth4]

> Custody searches in this context are forbidden by the fourth amendment, by the way, regardless of what the TSA's legal team may claim.

As is x-raying baggage and body-scans.

Fourth amendment rights don't apply to the same extent when you are on private property, when there are balancing security concerns, when you enter a courthouse, when you enter a school, etc. You know the deal when you enter these places and you have a choice whether to enter them.

The idea that you have the same fourth amendment rights boarding a plan as you do in your house or car is ridiculous.

I'm not saying I agree with TSA searches, only that your normal forth amendment standard does not apply.

[mkr-hn]

What's the point of a right if it can be violated where you most need it?

[freehunter]

Why do you need the right to not be searched at an airport or courthouse more than any place else? Speaking in hyperbole, I would rather have my fourth amendment rights broken voluntarily at an airport or by necessity at a courthouse than, for example, while I'm at home sleeping with my family or walking down the street minding my own business. While I disagree with the TSA searches and do not fly for that very reason, I also fundamentally disagree that you most need the fourth amendment protections while entering an airport.

[mkr-hn]

We need standards and accountability if we're willing to accept that situations exist where safety trumps rights. I haven't seen a threat that warranted an ongoing suspension of rights.

[mindslight]

Advertising. We're so Free!

It strikes me that many of our problems stem from people holding on to and trying to propagate the fairy tale explanations they were indoctrinated with, instead of moving on and simply acknowledging how the present day government operates and sustains itself.

[rayiner]

Boarding an airplane probably isn't where 4th amendment rights are most needed...

[mkr-hn]

I wish I had thought to keep links, but I've seen enough reports of people being picked out of the line for further review based on race, gender, and other attributes to want to see an investigation.

[smsm42]

Profiling by gender makes no sense - it's not like there's much choice and I see no reason why anybody would want to profile by gender for any reason, if we're talking about security. How did it look - are men picked out just because they are men? Or women are picked out just because they are women? Both sounds strange. And I'm speaking not about it being right - just about why anybody, however evil, would want to use it for any purpose at all. Nobody profiles by color of one's shoes or by third letter of the last name. Profiling must make sense at least in the mind of the profiler. I can imagine what happens in the mind of somebody who wants to profile by, say, citizenship - citizen of Saudi Arabia is probably statistically speaking more risk than citizen of the USA. But gender?

[drzaiusapelord]

Then don't fucking fly. Seriously, you guys make it sound the TSA breaks into your homes and strips you.

Yes, I disagree with a lot of their policies but this "Ron Paul" attitude of "the federal government actually has no power if you listen to my absurd interpretation of the constitution" isn't helping either. Its making my legitimate grievances sound lumped in with your extremist interpretations.

You can have sane security if you want it. The Europeans and others do it just fine. Its not illegal to search people or xray their luggage when they're coming on a plane. Deal with it. I'm getting sick of the weekly TSA hatefests. If site just a smaller reddit now? TSA has nothing to do with ycombinator or startups.

[mkr-hn]

Who said anything about Ron Paul?

[Todd]

The Europeans don't have a 4th amendment.

[pyre]

  > when you enter a courthouse

  > you have a choice whether to enter them

Not necessarily...

[aneth4]

True, though the security concerns of weapons in a courthouse surely justify a baggage scan, metal detector, and pat down. Security is far more of an issue in a courthouse even than on a plane.

[Zigurd]

Having recently been on a jury, I wish airport security was as hassle free as a courthouse in Massachusetts, where my bag was x-rayed with my laptop in it, and I walked, shoes on, through a metal detector.

I also agree that, in practical terms, security at a courthouse faces many more real-world challenges than air travel.

That should tell us something about appropriate levels of security.

[cma]

It isn't just when boarding airplanes:

http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty...