[malloryerik]

Using Clojure and Elixir and LLMs are fantastic with both. Sure, if I get to a super-stable situation then maybe I'd consider moving to Rust (or Jank?), but for now I'm just so happy with Clojure and Elixir in this new world. I'm solving new problems with fully bespoke architecture so the flexibility is key. Clojure for business logic and most DB. With Elixir, it's the actor model and hand-holding as I'm using it for the web layer. I bet Ruby on Rails would also shine for some cases, prob most CRUD for example.

[moosehater]

What made you use Clojure for business logic and DBs rather than using Elixir for everything? The JVM ecosystem?

[malloryerik]

For me, I need to move fast and already knew Phoenix well, LiveView fits my use case, and websockets setup with Phoenix is very clear so switching to a two-language setup seemed better than CLJS. I could have gone CLJS re-frame and all that but it would have been more work and more unknowns. I call LLMs from Elixir also so all of the reconnect, backoffs, papercuts, shenanigans and so on, well I just know how to do this kind of thing better in Elixir. In its way Elixir is a great, like, defensive language. I was able to keep most async in Elixir and Clojure mostly synchronous. There was some pain though with bridge between the two and at times I thought I'd made a mistake. Clojure is fantastic with data and Datalog databases, so no regret. Outside world deals with Elixir, and the temple is in Clojure and Datalog.

[iLemming]

> fantastic with both

Most developers evaluate programming languages by comparing features in isolation, never stepping back to consider the overall experience of using one.

Features are easy to talk about. They're discrete, nameable, and comparable. "Does it have Foo?" is a question you can actually answer. "What's it like to build and maintain a real system in language X for two or three years?" isn't. So people default to what's measurable.

Most devs haven't spent serious time in more than two or three languages in production. Without that contrast, the holistic experience is invisible - you don't know what you're missing, and you don't notice the pain you've learned to live with.

Language communities form around features because features make good rallying points. "We have algebraic types." "We have macros." These become identity markers. The holistic experience doesn't tribalize as cleanly - it's harder to put on a t-shirt.

There's also a sunk-cost angle: devs who've spent years in a language have every incentive to believe its features justify the investment. Honestly evaluating the overall experience might undermine that.

The irony is that the languages with the most devoted communities tend to be loved for exactly these holistic reasons - the ones that are nearly impossible to convey through a feature list. You can rave about Clojure or Elixir all day, but a curious newcomer will land on the homepage, scan the features, and walk away unimpressed: "Meh, it doesn't even have Foo. People say this is great? They clearly don't know what they're talking about."

[malloryerik]

Well in a recent project I tried TypeScript thinking, OK, LLMs, huge training corpus! massive adoption! api for everything already set up! swim with the current! and I tried various frameworks and so on, but for me reasoning about things and being able to make systems that I could adapt and pivot it was honestly inferior compared to niche Elixir and Clojure. But it's not like I hate JS; I use it in LiveView all the time. And don't mean to imply there are no problems in niche-land though; you've got to be willing to do more yourself and live in a tiny world. Really, LLMs kind of tamed Clojure for me because it seems so far at least that they can handle the glue code and stitching libraries together pretty decently as long as you don't get lazy with architectural choices and stay vigilant. And if I ever hire it pretty much has to be remote or learn on the job, though again LLMs reduce this pain greatly.