[rayiner]

I think older people who have more patience are supposed to help. We moved to America when we were young so my mom had raise my brother and I by herself, which was very hard coming from somewhere people live in multi-generational households. She had very little patience for it. But she and my dad have way more patience for my kids. My mom lived with us for a year and then my wife’s mom lived with us for a year while our youngest was 2-3. Then we moved 10 minutes from my parents. My middle child kept getting ear infections so he went to my parents’ house every day for two years. These days my boys (4 and 7) go to my parents’ house every weekend.

I don’t think younger people are wired to be taking care of babies full time. I’d imagine in nature they’d be out hunting or gathering and our attention spans are wired for doing that.

[camgunz]

I super agree; my partner and I talk all the time about how like, kids really benefit from having all kinds of different caregivers. Mostly from a place of "did we make a mistake"--we moved to the Netherlands away from our parents/etc. and, while we can compensate with day care and such, it's really not the same for all kinds of obvious reasons. We did have kids later: I was 39 and 41 when they were born, so that kind of helps. But, it's hard to not also feel it's the worst of both worlds: I have neither the energy of a late-20s father, nor the patience of a mid-50s grandfather.

For us (my partner and I) these discussions dovetail into discussions about community. Like, so much about modern, suburban, nuclear family stuff is really isolating for everyone involved. We don't know exactly where to go from here, but looking at the declining fertility rate, it does seem unsustainable.

[rayiner]

I suspect western societies are cooked unfortunately. It is unsustainable, you’re right.