[davidst]

I am one of the original authors of Space Cadet Pinball and I just want to say it is absolutely wonderful there are people who love our old pinball game enough to keep it alive. You made my day.

I am forwarding this post to my Cinematronics co-founders and friends, Mike Sandige (lead engineer) and Kevin Gliner (designer and product manager). They will enjoy seeing this as much as I did.

[ndiddy]

Having a fun game bundled with every Windows install was really something special, so thanks for working on the game and selling it to Microsoft. Without it, we wouldn't have been able to have a Pinball league in my middle school typing class :)

What parts of the game did you work on? Do you have any fun anecdotes about your time working on it, or stories about hard to find bugs?

[davidst]

I was CEO of Cinematronics (to be clear, we were a tiny startup so a CEO title didn't mean much - everyone pitched in wherever they could help.)

I negotiated the contract with Microsoft. My engineering contribution was not in the gameplay itself but in the game's memory manager and low-level rendering code. That was all performance-critical X86 assembly. I doubt any of that code lives on today.

Yes, there were a lot of anecdotes and the story on Wikipedia is both incomplete and incorrect in some ways. One day, I'll get around to editing it.

My memory is of promising it would be ready in time for Windows 95's launch, working excessively long hours, and focussing hard to make it fast enough so it would be fun to play on the minimum hardware requirement for Microsoft Plus.

[mike_san]

We had to make sure that Space Cadet ran on the minimum spec Windows machine, which had very little RAM - 4MB I think. On these machines, I made sure the game would run, but it would occasionally pause to swap sound effects when something new happened :)

[mghackerlady]

Wikipedia editor here! It would be much better to write a blog post or something, as anything you add will be removed as unsourced original research

[Randomno]

Have you read the Wikipedia page recently? It was less complete a couple of years ago

[davidst]

I looked at it today and it is more fleshed out but still incorrect. For example:

> In 1994, the company began development of a port of Doom.

No, we were never porting Doom and we used none of Doom's code or resources. And I didn't propose to tone down the violence. The game was intended to be a fun first-person shooter in the same spirit as Doom but that was the only connection.

Microsoft was involved in a high-profile antitrust suit with the Department of Justice at the time. They were understandably sensitive about the potential PR impact of this type of game shipping with Windows and proposed gameplay design changes to reduce the violence.

[amiga386]

Are you reading the right page?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinematronics,_LLC

Hasn't been edited since December 2024. Has never mentioned DOOM.

[Randomno]

This page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Tilt!_Pinball

Indeed the sources say Doom clone, not port.

[wilj]

My first time using NT 4, I was setting up a bunch of machines that needed babysitting, and Space Cadet Pinball got me through a lot of long, boring nights.

I've thought back throughout my career to how lucky I was, it kept me from going crazy. Thank you!

[x______________]

It is (an understatement to say) with great honor to have the opportunity to tell you (and indirectly the team if they read this): Thank You for making possibly one of the greatest Windows selling points ever, the inclusion of Space Cadet Pinball into its base offering.

SCP has had such a massive influence in my life up to the point of getting into the real world of pinball and becoming semi-professional (or the step prior as pro pinball doesn't exist in this part of the world, yet..).

I've been wanting to ask this forever and until this morning, would have thought I'd have brought this question to my grave:

Would you ever consider going back to the drawing board in an attempt to produce an official follow-up to Space Cadet Pinball?

There are a few generations of people who may be yearning for nostalgia in a world of enshittification, micro-transactions and even worse in the virtual pinball scenes, licensing bullshit that never favors the player.

Disclaimer: I've possibly put too much thought into this already, am willing to put everything I have into this if ever needed... but will need to let you comment first :)

[aa-jv]

Fellow pinball enthusiast here - I didn't get into it because of SCP, though, but rather grew up with the machines being regularly rotated and maintained in my Dads hamburger shop in the 70's .. halcyon days indeed!

What part of the world are you in that doesn't have a professional pinball tournament roster? Just curious ..

[x______________]

Hello fellow enthusiast pinball wizard!

Good ol' days indeed! That picturesque glimpse of the past brings a smile to my face! I didn't get more than 1 chance to play physical machines back in the day and only started in the last decade with a machine popping up at my office, to which I became the defacto repairman after it needing maintenance regularly.

I'm located in Prague, Czechia. The pinball scene in the country is basically held by two groups of people: those previously working in the gambling scene changing up their ways and going into the arcade scene, overcharging for tables (3$ dollars and up for 1 game, bought by in-house credits) or the older pinball scene and owners who have been milking out old tables for years on very reduced maintenance cycles, which results in rarely fully working tables.

Despite there being 1 local tournament, one of these options offers anything near IFPA standards.

Geographically speaking and as seen on the pinside map[0], France and Spain have very little areas where there are no machines whileas Germany has barely none. The reason being is that Germany has introduced entertainment laws at require businesses to pay for any machines they may offer to their patrons, resulting in table operators operating at a loss most of the time. That also stops the scene from crossing the border as it virtually doesn't exist, Spanish and French tourists do not come here for pinball whatsoever.

Move further east to Czechia and you have a very small population where most people do not know of the game or even less its local name of "Flipper". Businesses that have went into the pinball scene recently have failed miserably for various reasons but mainly due to pricing/bad business models and lack of international advertising.

Despite the grim situation over here, I'm aware that some efforts are persisting into getting another place set up so the dream of getting an IFPA chapter here is not dead!

Happy to hear your thoughts on it all!

[0] https://pinside.com/pinball/map/mapbox#5.89/49.472/14.274/0/...

[aa-jv]

Ah, very interesting! Here in Austria, we have a number of great tournaments being put on by various private clubs and enthusiast groups - but yes, machines are hard to find, if you don't join these clubs. I recently joined one (FlipperAsyl.at) and have had a lot of fun rejuvenating my youthful interest in this subject, joining tournaments, leasing a machine for my apartment to practice on, designing my own table, and so on. ;)

I have a plan to visit the Pinball Museum in Krakow (Poland) some time this summer .. perhaps similar jaunts are worth the effort? I know for a fact you could come to Vienna for the weekend and get quite satiated, if only at the Prater .. ;)

[x______________]

That's so cool and I appreciate the recommendation!

I do need to get out of the country soon for a weekend and the Viennese recommendation does sound nice! Looking at the Pinside map[0], there are a few hundred tables to try in the city! I might have to hit you up somehow whenever I finalize travel plans. Also, a few friends have been mentioning the Budapest Pinball museum lately so the idea of visiting there was also in the cards for this summer on top of ?Krakow? (didn't know about that!)

Leasing a table is indeed nice.. I opted to purchase one in an attempt to build a collection but that effort fizzled out but still have a table a few hundred km across the border waiting for me to pick up. I think the universe has better plans tho.. will need to wait and see :)

[0] https://pinside.com/pinball/map/mapbox#10.73/48.1852/16.4336...

[aa-jv]

Oh yes, you could indeed enjoy a fair bit of flipping spinners and bumping dodgers in Vienna, while having all the other great things to see and do as well .. if you time it right, you might even get to participate in a tournament - check the roster at FlipperAsyl.at - I'll see you there. ;)

Didn't know much about the Budapest Pinball museum, but yeah - that's what fellow enthusiasts are for! I'll add that to the Day Trip roster, since Budapest is absolutely gorgeous this time of year .. but I'll do the Krakow day trip in the next few weeks, since it'll be a new (and fascinating) city for me, whereas I've been lost in Budapest too many times to count so far, lol ..

I'm not .. quite yet .. at the point where I will purchase a table, but leasing one for a few months has been very, very rewarding - it was an immediate catalyst for cohesion and mirth among my circle .. we're even printing t-shirts for our Pinball Gang this weekend, hehe.

May your balls drain to great bonus and your bumpers drop like they know how to score!

[davidst]

> Would you ever consider going back to the drawing board in an attempt to produce an official follow-up to Space Cadet Pinball?

We reached out to Microsoft a few years ago and offered to create a new version at no charge if they would restore it to Windows but they turned us down. There appeared to be no interest on their part.

[x______________]

> We reached out to Microsoft a few years ago and offered to create a new version at no charge if they would restore it to Windows but they turned us down. There appeared to be no interest on their part.

Thanks for the prompt reasonse!

I'm inclined to think that the landscape a few years ago has changed drastically and today's world is a lot different: Microsoft is now one of the world's largest gaming houses with their purchases of Mojang, ZeniMax and Activision/Blizzard and the dust from those mergers (should) have settled. A vision for the immediate and near future would certainly be different.

Add the fact that Windows 11 currently has a very poor overall impression with its user base and have publicly pledged that they will work to improve their operating system offering.

There's also a new Xbox leader, Asha Sharma, who has decided to change how the Xbox division is being managed, leading to new ways on how to improve their overall share of the gaming market.

All of the above pertains only towards the initial conception of how Space Cadet was introduced to a generation of fans focused on Microsoft. And despite it being a unique opportunity, it may only be applicable back then. That is no longer necessary now in today's age as you already have an established name, product and reputation. And on the flip side, going the no-charge to previous benefactors may even be detrimental to the overall goal without considering existing gaming solutions like Steam or GoG.

I'd be bold to ask why would you even need their blessing to release an updated or new version but would be quick to dismiss the hurdle as unnecessary, when there are other options and people out there to support your brand and product and to see that your fans blessed are with another table after such a long time.

Looking forward to your feedback!

-x

edit: elusive missing comma

[davidst]

> I'd be bold to ask why would you even need their blessing to release an updated or new version

My Cinematronics co-founders and I do not own the rights to any of the games we created. Cinematronics was acquired by Maxis, and Maxis was later acquired by Electronic Arts (who are being acquired, as well.) The rights would have to be untangled which was, I suspect, part of the hesitation Microsoft had in moving forward.

[x______________]

Rights aside, would you be willing to explore other options to release a new pinball table to existing fans?

[davidst]

Never say never but I think it's unlikely. Our motivation was to restore pinball to Windows (with modern updates) so every Windows user could enjoy it. Any other form of distribution wouldn't have the same coverage or impact. It would have been great to not only please the fans of the old game but to introduce a new generation to pinball just as Space Cadet once did.

[pabs3]

What do you think of the source code escrow suggestion at the end?

I'm an external contractor for Software Heritage, not sure if they are currently working on it, but I think they would be an ideal organisation to play that role.

https://www.softwareheritage.org/

[unixhero]

As you of course know, since it was bundled with the default install of Windows 2000, we all had in our computer labs. It was a nice break from reality, an evergreen gamer and user experience. Eventually people brought Deluxe Skijump, Doom and Starcraft, but Space Cadet was still a viable option.

[mike_san]

Thanks, David! It's great to see the ongoing interest in this game!

[bsimpson]

kgliner's Hacker News comment from last time is cited on Wikipedia!