[bawolff]

> The cost falls on both ends of Scouts BSA. That program is optimal for middle schoolers, but middle schoolers are not trusted to own it. They are managed by older youth instead. High schoolers fare no better. Instead of receiving programming built around autonomy, peer challenge, advanced outdoor adventure, and responsibility suited to their age, the vast majority are trapped in a middle-school program where their main role is supervising the younger Scouts. BSA romanticizes this as mentoring. Teenagers see it as babysitting. They know the difference, and they leave.

A kind of interesting statement. I dont know if i agree. I think it is a positive thing to have children from different age groups learn from each other. Obviously it shouldn't devolve into just babysitting, but the idea of mixed ages learning together doesn't seem inherently bad.

[meetingthrower]

Former Eagle Scout here -- I agree a bit with this analysis. The absolute best parts of it for me were the high adventure camps, backpacking, etc. The absolute worst where the Monday meetings. Depending on the vibe of the troop your activities bias one way or the other.

[valleyjo]

Once you earn it you are an Eagle Scout for life. So you are an Eagle Scout not a “former” Eagle Scout. At least that’s what I was thought!

[meetingthrower]

Hahah yes. Eagle Scout here! Be prepared!

[bluGill]

I'm currently scoutmaster and that is my thought. Camping is fun, but we do that once a month - what should we do the other times that is fun

[raddan]

My Troop spent a lot of the non-adventure time motivating us to learn skills that we would need on adventures. Knot tying, first aid, camp cooking, paddling technique, carpentry, etc. Many of the leaders were current or former Navy personnel (this was in a town with a maritime school), so they often told engaging stories about how they needed these skills. There were also low-commitment activities in town that children enjoyed: campfires with smores, tours of historical sites (old forts), bike rides, “hikes” around town, art projects, fund drives, etc.

[AuthorizedCust]

This is all great, and it's even better when it's done in the context of properly age-banded programs.

Many times, the high schooler wants to do different things than the 6th grader. And even when they do the same activity, approaches will be different.

[AuthorizedCust]

All age bands deserve age-level programming.

Today's reality is that 90% of BSA's high schoolers are stuck in its middle-school program. They aren't getting age-level programming.

BSA has never strongly denied this. Instead, it acts as if handing the reins of its middle-school program to high schoolers constitutes age-level programming for high schoolers. It does not.

It even further muddies the water, recommending mixed-age patrols. Yes, for real, your freshly crossed-over 10 year old is supposed to be in the same patrol as a 17 yo high-school senior. That is weird. But BSA thinks it's appropriate.

To be clear, I think cross-age-band interactions can have value, but they must be optional, and they must never displace age-level programming. I have separately proposed a new position called Guide. It is a position of responsibility where any youth may elect to help with any younger program. This is a service role, not supervision, not displacing younger youth from owning their program. This replaces Den Chief, Instructor, Junior Asst. Scoutmaster, and Troop Guide.

But importantly, and to reemphasize, Guide must be OPTIONAL. Scouting in no way depends on cross-age-band interactions. They are a value add when they work well. But the BSA view on these interactions resembles a fetish and lacks a rational basis.

[em-bee]

the idea of mixed ages learning together doesn't seem inherently bad

it's not. the problem is that the teenagers are not given any real authority that would be appropriate for their age. but then on their 18th birthday they suddenly become assistant scoutmasters with the expectation of real authority that comes with that title. so they become leaders simply because of their age, and not by merit or experience. in germany a patrol is a self functioning unit with their own meeting times or spaces. a patrol leader is someone who has been shown to be mature and patrols are able to plan and execute their own events and trips without an adult needing to be present. in the US that rarely happens. that's not just a BSA problem though, it is a problem of american culture in general. anyone under the age of 18 is treated like a child.

[Henchman21]

Seems like the problem is actually that we have decided children have and deserve no agency.

[jaybrendansmith]

I like this revamp idea, actually. In the troop I help with, we have an older 'venture patrol', and separating these two groups (10-13 vs 14-17) makes a lot of sense. And I don't particularly like the idea of any boy or girl getting Eagle before at least 16...holding leadership positions is really important. I think this structural change would help keep boys and girls interested past age 14. But mostly, I think the organization, which has done over a century of good, needs money to get a branding facelift. If any of these billionaire types want to do good, they could consider that shaping the country's youth with a solid program focused on citizenship, moral judgement, and outdoor skills might be something positive they could be remembered for.