[thayne]

It is much harder to write quality stuff in c/c++ that doesn't have memory bugs (use after free, out of bounds access, use of unitialized memory, double free, memory races, etc.). I wouldn't say it isn't feasible to build high quality software in those languages, but even the highest quality software written in those languages has these types of bugs. Zig is better than c, and maybe a little bit better than c++, especially with respect to spatial memory bugs, but it doesn't provide the same garantees as rust.

[ozgrakkurt]

I use clang, LLM, zig compiler, brave, firefox, kde, linux, steam, PC games, neovim, ghostty and more software written in c/c++/zig, and I can't remember the last time I had a crash issue with memory issues.

KDE also includes many other programs inside it like music player, document reader etc. that I never had any issues with.

[dinkumthinkum]

Based on what? I am not familiar with this language called called "c/c++" but if you are writing Modern C++, you shouldn't be creating problems like "double free." It's really not that hard to avoid at all. This reminds me of how all the people carried on as if they were making the kernel so much safer not realizing they needed to use unsafe rust. I think so many people call themselves programmers now but so few know very much about computing beyond whatever the latest fad web framework is up to.

[pjmlp]

This kind of argument is why security folks look down on C and C++ developers.

Because instead of discussing serious matters, they missed English grammar class on the use of / and then get up in arms about the use of "and, or".

Additionally, even code bases from companies that seat at WG21, lack the use of the so called Modern C++, without any language feature or header files inherited from C.

Better C with some niceties keeps being the prevalent approach, unfortunately.

C strings, C arrays, pointer math, printf family, C style casts, macros instead of templates, no STL, and if not hardned ...

[thayne]

Sure if you restrict yourself to a subset of c++ that avoids the more unsafe features, you can avoid some of those problems, but not all of them. And IME, a lot of c++ in the wild still uses those unsafe features, especially when interfacing with c libraries. And even if you always use smart pointers and make sure you always initialize your variables there are still plenty of ways you can get undefined behavior in c++.

> This reminds me of how all the people carried on as if they were making the kernel so much safer not realizing they needed to use unsafe rust.

Those are not contradictory. Confining unsafe code to a few unsafe blocks makes it easier to identify areas that need closer scrutiny. Just because there are unsafe blocks doesn't mean that using rust in the kernel isn't making it safer.