[Capricorn2481]

Yes, surprising in a "I can't believe this is happening" way, not in a "this was unexpected" way. He made his campaign on ending everything. Diving headfirst into the first conflict he could with 0 understanding is the most expected thing that could've happened.

[cjbgkagh]

Americans consistently vote for less war and they consistently get more war. If they voted for more war I’m pretty sure they would still get more war. I think blaming the American public for these wars is a deflection from the actual mechanisms that instigate them. We are more governed by blackmail than we are by voters.

I do wish there was even more resistance though, war has been effectively pitched as costless or even as a boon. Perhaps if this war bites there will be more resistance to future wars. At the very least the Iran war being such a disaster may have saved us from a more costly war with China - which the US was and in some ways still is gearing up for.

[Capricorn2481]

> I think blaming the American public for these wars is a deflection

Where did I do that? There's no one to vote for that doesn't wage war.

But to say voting for Trump was voting for less war is plain ridiculous. You'd have to ignore his entire career. He is famously fickle, is not shy about lying, and abandons friends at the soonest opportunity. A rational person hearing him say "I will end the Ukraine war on day 1" would understand he's saying whatever he thinks sounds good.

[cjbgkagh]

I consider the marginal voter to be rather dim, credulous, and uninformed irrational actors.

Politics in a universal suffrage democracy is the art of idiot whispering and Trump is a master of this art. I do believe that most of his voters genuinely thought they were voting for less war.