[mazurnification]

"What are you going to do" was a phrase you could hear in Poland as well in 90ties and early 2000th. What differentiated PL w/ UA in my opinion is 2 things:

1. Lack of oligarchy - which in fact was not obvious outcome and little bit of luck on our part and little bit of cultural zeitgeist of 90ties and 00ths. 2. No east-west dithering - PL knew right away to which economic and cultural sphere wanted to belong

[foobarian]

> 2. No east-west dithering - PL knew right away to which economic and cultural sphere wanted to belong

I wonder how much the Catholic vs. Orthodox background affected things there

[rembal]

Not much I think. I had long discussions about it with my Ukrainian friends: we came to the conclusion that it was mostly the fact that Ukraine was part of the USSR (much harder crackdowns on opposition, actually including the church) - and that also built stronger ties with Russia. A lot of people forget that USSR really was a multicultural empire: you had families where in the 90s siblings abruptly woke up in different countries: Russia, Belarus, Ukraine. Post-2022 some of those families stopped talking to each other, the propaganda is stronger than the family ties. Before the situation got clarified by falling bombs, the east/west choice was much harder.

[Ray20]

> Post-2022 some of those families stopped talking to each other, the propaganda is stronger than the family ties.

I don't think it's a matter of propaganda. We're talking about totalitarian dictatorships on both sides of the barricades, where such communication with relatives on the other side have very real risks of decades in prison or even death.

[inglor_cz]

It certainly helps if you don't have a massive minority speaking Russian.

[pjc50]

Lack of oligarchy is starting to look like an absolutely critical ingredient, and it's lucky that Poland escaped from the PiS trying to turn it into an oligarchy.

[cromka]

I think they meant post 1990 situation.