[twoodfin]

The U.S. has public education, and people still worry an awful lot about whether their kids' schools are any good, to the point of some spending a premium of literally hundreds of thousands of dollars on housing in the "right" districts, or on private education. The poor are still underserved, racially-measured outcome disparities are substantial, etc.

None of this is directly an argument against public health care, since obviously there's a benefit to universal availability in both education and health, but certainly it wouldn't be a panacea.

[rayiner]

When you adjust for demographics, American education is as good as any system in western Europe, and by and large middle of the spectrum families can be assured that their local public school will at least not be a complete disaster.

The same isn't true for healthcare. This bizarre system of tying your healthcare to your job means even middle and high income families don't have any peace of mind when it comes to healthcare. Heck, my wife and I are a high income couple and have expensive health insurance, and we are still completely paranoid about all the ways the insurers could find to screw us over, especially now that we're about to have a baby. Every time my wife goes to a pre-natal visit, she ends up fighting with the insurer about how something was coded, etc.

[twoodfin]

If you don't mind my asking, what's your health plan? I'm on a Blue Cross Blue Shield of MA PPO and couldn't be happier. It's indeed very expensive, but considering what my family has gotten out of it with essentially 0 hassles, I have no grounds for complaint. Essentially everything's covered, even out to some wacky stuff like acupuncture. I can walk into a specialist's office at a world class hospital with no referral for a $20 copay. During at least two health crises, they've reached out to make sure care was being coordinated properly.

Sorry that this sounds like an ad, but we don't all live in fear of our health plans. (I dislike the term "insurer", since what they sell stopped behaving like insurance a long time ago.)

[astrodust]

What does "very expensive" mean in this context?

[twoodfin]

Don't quote me, but something like $1000/month for employee +1 coverage. Of that, ~30% comes out of my paycheck and is tax deductible. Not to put too fine a point on it: $300/mo pretax is a steal. Even assuming the full cost would, IMHO, be reasonable. $12,000 sounds like a lot but I suspect that BCBS is doing more for me in real terms right now than the Federal government to which I hand over the equivalent of a mid-range Mercedes in income tax every year.

[astrodust]

It doesn't just sound like a lot. It is a lot.

Even with the "high income" surcharge here for health-care, it's less than $1000 a year for an individual. Since it's deducted from your income along with regular payroll taxes, you don't even have to pay for dependents. They're covered under their own plan which is basically free until they start earning and paying deductions of their own.

In a start-up environment, $12,000 a year is not a lease on a Mercedes, it's the difference between your business floundering in obscurity and affording a few key networking trips, or the difference between living in a bedbug infested hellhole or having a decent apartment.

[twoodfin]

Where's "here"?

[king_jester]

I agree, the education system in the US has several problems, some of which are being made worse by attempt to "fix" those problems (Race to the Top I'm looking at you).

I would point out that these kinds of things are about trade offs. As a society we are much worse off without a national education offering, even if it has significant problems to overcome. At this point in time, private health insurance tied to employment have clearly failed as a way for US society to have decent health care, as we spend more for lower quality service than most other nations in our economic class. Universal health care programs are not so much about a panacea, but something that doesn't suck as bad.