[afavour]

> The reliability has improved a bit, but the subway crime is also way, way up.

Eh, it’s all relative, I think you’re in less danger of experiencing issues on the subway than you are getting hit on the road. I take the subway all the time and have never had any problems.

[busterarm]

Subway assaults went up 3x between 2009 and 2025 and violent crime in general in the subway has had nearly a 20% spike just in the first two months of this year alone. Assaults by repeat offenders are up 2x from 2019 to 2025.

I'll take a minor fender bender every now and again over someone hitting me in the head with a brick ever.

I can't believe the suggestion is that property damage and/or low-speed collisions would be preferable to being assaulted. And I've been tapped by cars and walked away from it several times. Plus the "well it never happened to me" is just survivorship bias. Over enough decades and enough rides something fucked up on the subway _will_ happen to you eventually.

This is the kind of thinking that I left NY over.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I'll take a minor fender bender every now and again over someone hitting me in the head with a brick ever

You're more than 7x more likely to die in a car in New York than on the subway. If you're the kind of idiot that voluntarily trespasses onto the tracks, you're 2x more likely.

In 2023, 112 motor-vehicle occupants died in New York [1] "97 people were fatally struck by subway trains" [2], nearly half (49%) of which are suicides and 33% of which are accidents, almost all of which involve voluntarily trespassing onto the tracks [3]. Five people were killed by assault [4].

[1] https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-dat...

[2] https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/04/11/mta-operators-subway-coll...

[3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40405368/

[4] https://www.mta.info/document/131556

[busterarm]

In 2023 exactly two Uber passengers died in NYC. One from jumping out of their moving vehicle onto the LIE and the other from being rear-ended by a drag racer on the Whitestone Expressway.

The alternative to taking the subway for the vast majority of NYC residents is not driving to work.

And as an Uber passenger living in NYC I overwhelmingly spent my time on roads that were not highways.

I can't find exact taxi passenger deaths but between 2019 & 2023 there were 23 passenger fatalities across all rideshare services and taxis. At least one of those was a fatal drug overdose (2022).

[JumpCrisscross]

> between 2019 & 2023 there were 23 passenger fatalities across all rideshare services and taxis

Which is way more than the total number of homicides on the subway system. All of this is before adjusting for trip frequency. (Uber and Lyft do about a fifth of the trips as the subway.)

I lived in New York for 10 years and go back frequently. I take Ubers and cabs (and Blade) all the time. It's convenient. And sometimes, yes, I just want a quiet space in which to relax. But pretending it's safer is simply untrue.

[busterarm]

Wait we went from simple assault to comparing it just to homicides now? I just don't want to get attacked or slashed by somebody.

Okay you lived in NY for 10 years, I lived there for over 40. The subway is shit compared to where it was only a handful of years ago. In the last years that I was there, Uber was way safer.

Also I said "fatalities", which isn't just murder and isn't even necessarily a crime. There were 39 homicides in the subway[1] during that same period. So it's not less. But also those are murders whereas the 23 were mostly from accidents.

[1]: 2019: 3, 2020: 6, 2021: 8, 2022: 7, 2023: 5, 2024: 10 (source: compstat).

[afavour]

2009 was a historic low point for subway crimes. Only looking at relative numbers from then is misleading.

There were 573 assaults on the subway in 2024, up from something like 150 in 2009. There were something like 1.9 billion journeys taken that year. Avoiding the subway because of the 1 in 2,000,000 danger of assault is not rational.

Exaggerated paranoid thinking is indeed the thing that leads a lot of people to unnecessarily leave NYC.

[busterarm]

573 _felony_ assaults. Misdemeanor assault is still a thing. That includes people fighting you with their fists or groping you.

Also anyone in NY with a functioning brain knows just how underreported subway crime is. You can either get where you're going and go about your day or end it by trying to find a cop and then trying to get them motivated to even take your report.

2009 being a low point for crime should just be normal. I lived through all the bad decades in NY and you're not there yet but certainly trending towards it.

I like how multiple years of "hey why does all of this fucked up shit keep happening to me?" is "exaggerated paranoid thinking". Truly stunning and brave. Being repeatedly victimized by random crime is just a mindset, bruh.

[afavour]

OK, so you’re going to cite numbers when they agree with you then say “everyone knows the numbers are wrong” when they don’t?

This is not a conversation worth continuing. By your own admission you don’t even live in the city any more!

> certainly trending towards it.

which is also untrue! Subway crime was down across the board in 2025.

[JumpCrisscross]

> you’re in less danger of experiencing issues on the subway than you are getting hit on the road

For what it's worth, I lived in New York for ten years and was in one car accident (cabbie, distracted by whatever phone all they're all constantly dialled into, blew through a stop sign) and zero even closer calls on the subway.