[Izkata]

Isn't this just... normal? Maybe they use it more often, but (also in the Midwest as other comments mention) these uses are all more common than an actual apology.

But for a more distant example of the "I'm about to inconvenience you" usage being normal - isn't the Japanese "sumimasen" used almost exactly the same as these?

[tdeck]

As a learner it feels like Japanese is full of this kind of formalized, preemptory apologizing in all kinds of situations. You go to the supermarket and ask if they sell stamps (the answer is no) and they say the formal apology "申し訳ありません" (literally: I have no excuse).

There's also ごめん下さい "gomen kudasai" (literally "please forgive me") which is used as a greeting when visiting someone's house unexpectedly. And どうもすみません "domo sumimasen" (literally "thanks excuse me/I'm sorry") when accepting someone's offer to help with something.

None of these necessarily imply the speaker has actually done something wrong or wouldn't do the same again.

[getoj]

> None of these necessarily imply the speaker has actually done something wrong

You’d be surprised. The culture of kidzukai has two core tenets: (1) You must anticipate and cater to the other person’s every need and whim. If you fail you must apologize. (2) You must not allow the other person to do (1) for you instead of you doing it for them. If you fail you must apologize.

This means that every interaction between people who are even slightly close to each other in the social hierarchy is 3D chess which always ends in one or both of you apologizing to the other.

p.s. Gomen kudasai is “please permit me” to enter your house, not really an apology like gomen nasai.

[roarcher]

> Isn't this just... normal?

In the anglosphere maybe, but outside of that it seems to not be. My girlfriend is from SE Asia and her language's equivalent is evidently used exclusively to apologize for having wronged someone. I've had to explain my usage of "I'm sorry that [bad thing happened]" or "Sorry, but can I just [very minorly inconvenience you]" because she didn't understand what I was admitting fault for.

In her language I believe they use different politeness markers for these situations (they have an "excuse me" equivalent), but I'm not proficient enough to know them well.

[ccppurcell]

The I'm sorry (that someone died) is easy to explain as it's obviously connected to the word sorrow. The hardest is "sorry?" (I didn't understand or hear you)

[roarcher]

It's easy to explain, but her language (Vietnamese) has no relation to English other than forced adoption of the Latin alphabet, so she wouldn't see that connection.

"Sorry" is most commonly translated as "xin lỗi" which literally means something like "request forgiveness". It's connected exclusively to the notion of fault, not sadness. The real issue is that sorry <-> xin lỗi is a ubiquitous but poor translation, because the meaning of xin lỗi is much more specific than sorry.

[sayamqazi]

I speak Urdu (another South Asian language). If you asked someone the meaning of sorry in Urdu they would always say "ma'afi/ma'af karna" which is very strictly "asking forgiveness" although it "can" be used as "I didnt hear you / come again" literally nobody ever uses it that way

[strken]

Doesn't it come from "sorry [to make you repeat yourself], could you repeat that?"

[throw_await]

That's a folk etymology. Sorry is a derivative of sore. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sorry