[NoMoreNicksLeft]

>How can you have any definition of consciousness that says humans do not possess it,

I'm not obligated to prove the negative.

>Isn't consciousness phenomenon that's literally derived from human experience?

You grew up watching and seeing all the various illusions caused by how your brain works/malfunctions, but this is the one experience you're sure is the real deal? The one telling you that it's a scientific fact that you have a woo-woo spirit in your skull, and that neuroscientists are going to find it any day now?

[azan_]

> You grew up watching and seeing all the various illusions caused by how your brain works/malfunctions, but this is the one experience you're sure is the real deal? The one telling you that it's a scientific fact that you have a woo-woo spirit in your skull, and that neuroscientists are going to find it any day now?

No, that's your projection, I did not make any of these claims. I'm sure I have consciousness. I don't know how it works, if it's "real deal" (what does it even mean?), if its woo-woo spirit and if neuroscientists will ever be able to find. What we know is that humans experience it (I'll instantly clarify - it doesn't mean that non-humans do not experience it) hence definition which excludes humans will always make zero sense.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

>I'm sure I have consciousness.

Why? How is your claim different than a Catholic who claims to have a soul? I respect their claim more than yours, oddly.

>I don't know how it works, i

How what works? This consciousness that you're sure you possess, but you can't measure, detect, define, or even really describe?

You don't have it. Everything you are can be explained without it, and it doesn't make you less than what you were if you had it. It's a nonsense idea, primitive and inherited from religion. You don't have it because there's no such thing.

[azan_]

> This consciousness that you're sure you possess, but you can't measure, detect, define, or even really describe?

But you can measure consciousness in humans, for example anesthesiologists do it all the time! Do you see difference between being asleep (without dreaming) or being under anesthesia and not being asleep or under anesthesia? If yes then that difference is consciousness, it’s something you yourself can experience. I think you just mix multiple things, perhaps you think consciousness is free will or something like that otherwise I can’t explain how can you hold this position. If you are thinking right now then you are conscious hence consciousness exists. And that’s it.

> It's a nonsense idea, primitive and inherited from religion

No, consciousness is something you just experience. Don’t you have inner life, thoughts, experiences? You ascribe some magic properties to consciousness and then - since magic doesn’t exist - come to conclusion that it can’t exist. But you know, you should just skip the magic part.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

>But you can measure consciousness in humans, for example anesthesiologists do it all th

By that definition a Roomba is conscious. It's not a useful measurement. Anesthesiologists measure wakefulness. It's pretty meaningless really. There are times when you're not conscious in the way an anesthesiologist cares about, and it's no moral or ethical change of status.

All you're saying is "higher degree of sensitivity to stimuli". Big whoop.

>No, consciousness is something you just experience.

It's something you mistakenly believe is occurring because you aren't particularly rational.

[azan_]

> By that definition a Roomba is conscious. No, that doesn't make sense. > It's something you mistakenly believe is occurring because you aren't particularly rational. Absolutely not. It's you who ascribe magical properties to consciousness.

[GTP]

Cogito ergo sum.