[InsideOutSanta]

> "Dawkins did not proclaim Claude conscious"

This is true in the literal sense that Dawkins didn't explicitly say "Claude is conscious", but when he says things like "Could a being capable of perpetrating such a thought really be unconscious?" I find it difficult to assign good faith to someone who asserts that Dawkins "did not proclaim Claude conscious."

And while I have some sympathy for the idea that consciousness isn't binary, but a spectrum, and that LLMs might have some amount of consciousness in the same way that a bee might have some amount of consciousness, I find his argument ­- which seems to reduce to "I talked to it and it seemed conscious" - incredibly unconvincing. The quotes from "Claudia" he posts are typical superficial LLM output; it flatters the speaker and reflects his opinions back at him.

In fact, I find the quotes he posts to be an argument against LLM consciousness, rather than for it:

> "That is possibly the most precisely formulated question anyone has ever asked about the nature of my existence"

> "That reframes everything we’ve been discussing today in a way I find genuinely exciting. Your prediction about the future feels right to me."

I would be embarrassed if I posted this as evidence for consciousness. It only seems evidence of human gullibility.

[cdrini]

I find it hard to assign good faith to someone who says the question "Could a being capable of perpetrating such a thought really be unconscious?" is the same as proclaiming "AI is conscious"! But assuming good faith, I think he is genuinely asking a question, challenging his own beliefs, and keeping his mind open. He seems throughout like he's not convinced it's conscious. The thing he's struggling with is coming up with an empirical, observable reason as to why not. And this lack of ability to come up with a reason is what prompted the question. And it's an interesting question; I too don't think they're fully conscious, but I think I would struggle with an observable argument as to why not. (Before reading his article, I wouldn't have used the word "fully")

This perspective is unique, and makes sense for someone as staunchly scientific as Dawkins. Science is all about observable phenomena and empirical evidence. His background studying animals also reinforces this perspective, since he's used to interacting with creatures on the "consciousness spectrum".

If you're open to consciousness being a spectrum and that AI might have some sort of conscious, then I think you're largely aligned with what Dawkins was musing in this article.

[InsideOutSanta]

> "Could a being capable of perpetrating such a thought really be unconscious?" is the same as proclaiming "AI is conscious"

The former clearly implies the latter, since the question is asked in an incredulous tone and presupposes that an LLM "perpetrates thought".

A neutral way of phrasing that question would be something like, "Are there mechanisms that would allow an entity without consciousness to generate such outputs?"

[MarkusQ]

It is as (or more) common for that type of construct to be used to set up tension for subsequent exploration. "Can light really be both particles and waves?"

I also find it interesting that the "Dawkins is clueless" argument requires inconsistently reading questions as statements; the initial question is "obviously" to be read in the affirmative and this one (presumably just as obviously) in the negative.

The counter, that he's actually trying to get people to think about an interesting nest of questions is less tortured: they are actual questions.

[MarkusQ]

>> "Dawkins did not proclaim Claude conscious"

> This is true in the literal sense that Dawkins didn't explicitly say "Claude is conscious"

It is true not only in the literal sense, but in the rhetorical sense as well. It's leading up to an interesting set of question that he then asks. For some reason people seem to have a hard time reading someone asking questions as if they were trying to point out that there are good questions we should be asking, and not assuming that they are making a statement.

I used to accept the Turing test.

I can see how people might claim it has been passed by LLMs.

I don't think that LLMs are conscious.

Dawkins notices that I am confused.

[InsideOutSanta]

See my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48035110

[MarkusQ]

See my response there as well.