[Terretta]

The same is true in a physical card wallet.

An 80 year old with early onset challenges can work this wallet, pick a card, and then hold the phone to the reader at a store. It's all co-opting "familiar" actions for them, not tech-like, which means they can do it.

The biggest UX issue Apple has for that persona isn't the wallet, it's the lack of physical home button. Everyone in their 70s and up seems to be given pause every time they aren't on the screen they expect, and even to unlock it.

Invisible affordances rely on memory rather than sight trigger: not good.

[lode]

> The same is true in a physical card wallet.

Not at all.

In my physical wallet, those identical looking cards have different names on them, ie. <myfirstname mylastname> and <mylastname - partnerslastname> for joint accounts. I can also mark them up with a marker, or request a different picture from some banks.

In iOS I need to remember that the one ending with 0044 is mine, and 0073 is for our joint account. I have no way to add an alias or distinguish them otherwise. This is ridiculous.

[Terretta]

> I have no way to add an alias or distinguish them otherwise.

Seeing ones own name on a physical card also doesn't say say which joint account it is, yours or your partners (my partner and I each have Bank X, and each have a card for the other, which only has our own name, so, I feel your pain).

But, there is a way!

1. Tap the card, then tap the card[123] icon upper right and "Enter physical card information".

2. Either scan the card or type it in. Add the CVV while you're at it, seeing this later requires an additional FaceID.

3. Add "Description" for "Mine" or "Joint" or whatever. (KEY STEP)

When asked if you want to replace the card with same number say yes. It'll stay the same card, same transaction histories, etc., but now have a distinguishing description.

[codesnik]

which is much better than nothing, but is a fairly recent addition

[the_other]

My banks provide different colour options for their cards. All my digital cards differ, even from the same bank. The alternate colours helps within the banks/ apps as well as within Wallet, so it's not just an iOS "workaround".

I agree, it would be nice if Apple added stickers, but the problem isn't, IMO, as bad as you make out.

Exceptions include transport and concert tickets. Most of the time this doesn't cause problems because I'm standing with the other people I'm travelling/gigging with, and the agent scanning the tickets doesn't care about any names on them.

[thdr]

> but the problem isn't, IMO, as bad as you make out.

But it is exactly as bad as they describe it. My bank doesn't provide color options for my cards, and there is no way to distinguish my two cards aside from the displayed four digits.

[dpoloncsak]

...so you keep the one you primarily use in the front of your card slot in your wallet, and the one you don't use often behind your other cards.

Apple wallet solves this in a similar way, letting you arrange the order

[thedougd]

I didn't know I could do that, so I just gave it a try.

First instinct, double tap the side button to open Wallet. Couldn't rearrange the cards there. So,I opened Settings app and couldn't rearrange the cards there. Finally, I opened the Wallet app and found I could rearrange cards there, though there's no visual indicators that I can. I accidentally changed my default card on the first attempt.

[jasomill]

The fact that the double-click shortcut opens the Wallet app in a functionally limited but visually identical mode is terrible UI design.

[thdr]

Yes, I can try to memorize the order of the cards. What a lousy workaround, and absolutely no reason to defend poor UI design.

[Terr_]

> My banks provide different colour options for their cards.

I'd like to take a moment to appreciate a tiny "UX feature" that punches above its weight: When multiple physical cards have different base-colors to their plastic, visible along the edge.

This reduces how often you even need to check the face of a card. With several in one sleeve/stack, you can slide out the one you want, knowing that (for example) blue is credit, green is debit, red is the shared family one etc.

With my kind of wallet, if I had to pick I'd rather customize the edge-color versus the faces.

[alistairSH]

That's not universally true.

I have a shared checking account with my spouse. Both my personal card and shared card are the same, save for the actual card number.

[jermaustin1]

Same here. I'm in the US. I actually thought Credit/Debit cards had to have YOUR "full" name on them.

My wife and I share MANY accounts, and none of our cards have a "shared" name on it.

[bombcar]

The only information sent to the card processor is the swipe (number expiration date) and sometimes the zip code and verification code on the back (if entered by hand).

[jermaustin1]

When my wife worked retail (20+ years ago), she had to verify the name on the card with the name on the machine with the name on their ID. They caught a decent number where the machine had a different name pop up than the card showed. And WAY more when comparing both to their ID.

They called her "The Bulldog" because of how vigilant she was about it. That store lead the region in CC Fraud. But soon they were the bottom of the region in shrink and loss prevention.

[alistairSH]

I worked retail for a bit in high school. I tried to check card vs ID name for about a week before the manager told me to cut that shit out - too many wives, kids, etc using "dad's" card (this was 1994, so it was almost exclusively dad's card - I imagine that's changed in the last 30 years).

[bombcar]

At least in my experience the "name on the machine" back then was just read from the magstripe - I had access to a track 3 writer and had some fun copying my credit card info onto my driver license and swiping that.

[chimeracoder]

> The only information sent to the card processor is the swipe (number expiration date) and sometimes the zip code and verification code on the back (if entered by hand).

For credit cards? No, that's not necessarily true.

[marcus_holmes]

I use physical stickers on my cards to tell them apart

[bdamm]

First; have you heard of a sharpie?

Second; have you tried this with actual 80yr olds with early onset? Because I have. It doesn’t work, not even close. The steps require to get to that point are impossible for an 80yr old with early onset to even get close to. From trust, to setup, to even the stupid double-click with arthritic fingers, it’s fraught with roadblocks. And forget swiping.

This is a massive problem. The lack of care for options to equip seniors with usable iPhones is a massive problem right now. It is causing suffering both in the seniors and in the people who love them.

[k310]

Thank you for bringing this up. I am 77 and techie through and through, but with several ios gadgets mostly on 26, it's a fright trying to swipe. The iphone SE3 has a home button. The Christmas sale ipad has a touch (raised) button. And nuttier than squirrel **, the volume buttons reverse up and down functions when you rotate the ipad. Some controls pull down. Some pull up.

And Apple+ wonder why people cling to older OS versions. It's not change so much as disorientation.

PS. I sharpie everything. Even with myopia, I can't read "best by" dates. It takes a powerful magnifier in addition to my macro lens eyes.(less the glasses) This is crazy. I sharpie the dates at home.

And a bit off-topic, only Trader Joe's provides big readable price labels. I need the phone camera to read prices elsewhere, even with the correct glass prescription. And ingredients? Fuggedaboutit.

UPC could be a starting point for fetching info, but nobody's starting.

[michael1999]

Yeah. iPhone and iPad have gone backwards for my mother every year. Losing the home button was a disaster. Every edge swipe, or double-click is more trouble. The new stuff is great for me, but the original skeuomorphic designs were so much better for my mom.

[testfoobar]

I feel truly sorry for older folks navigating apps/logins/passwords/etc.

Their experience is often utter shit.

Two examples:

1. Often older folks have their screen zoom maxed out for readability. Extreme zoom will often place critical fields and buttons off-screen - making the app useless.

2. Fingers and hands of older folks often tremble. So imagine holding in your trembling left hand your phone, while you're trying to hit a target with your trembling right finger. All while standing in line to get a discount on your groceries.

[HoldOnAMinute]

Because technology is about promotions and shareholders, and not about the USERS of the technology.

[smaudet]

Even as a non-80 year old (much closer to the first half than second), I don't understand what has been built or why I would care...

A piece of paper has infinite battery life and perfect UX (ignoring security for a second). I don't have to remember to add it to something and then worry if I added it, or how I can give it someone later...this idea of a pass you build doesn't seem to pass the "does it make sense" test.

[gortok]

But it’s not true of a physical wallet. I have 8 locations in my bi-fold wallet I can place any given card, orientation-wise.

Lower left, lower right, upper left, upper right, inside left, inside right, dollar bills left, dollar bills right.

[mh-]

Isn't the same true of the wallet on iPhone? I drag and drop reorder my cards as necessary. There's a fixed number of positions that fit above the "fold" (in the scrolling sense).

[gortok]

No. I have only a vertical ordering available in Apple wallet. A card can be above another card or below another card. I have 3d physicality in a wallet that Apple wallet does not replicate.

[mh-]

Ah, so two+ columns vs one.

[forrestthewoods]

I can fully control the location of cards in my physical wallet.

The sorting of the Apple Wallet column is a mystery to me. I can probably control it. But I couldn’t tell you how. It also lacks tactile feel. So it’s just not the same. It’s a sloppy mess.

[mh-]

Without wading into your leather vs glass debate: open the Wallet app, press and hold a card, drag up and down as desired.

[gortok]

Two columns vertically, but four columns deep in 3D space.

[Forgeties79]

I don’t know about you but I can’t possibly remember what’s in every fold and pocket because most of the stuff is used infrequently but is still necessary to have on me (health insurance card, for instance).

I basically only know what’s in one or two places. I just end up rifling through everything until I find it

[brandon272]

> The biggest UX issue Apple has for that persona isn't the wallet, it's the lack of physical home button.

I'm in my 40s and don't have much trouble with reaching Home by swiping up from the bottom. But anecdotally, when I observe a person who is 65+ operate their iPhones, 9 times out of 10 they experience problems swiping up from bottom to reach Home. The swipe up does nothing, presumably because they aren't starting the swipe from low enough on the screen.

[delecti]

The hands of older people are also just literally less compatible with a capacitive touchscreen, because skin retains less moisture as we age. If you've ever seen an older person licking their finger before turning the page of a book, that's why.

[ridgeguy]

Also, fine motor coordination often declines with age. Can make it hard to do a swipe or hit a key reliably in the first try.

[Melatonic]

I still like my physical keyboards - bring back sliders !

[rkagerer]

One stupid button would solve all that. I'm of similar age as you and really miss buttons. In my car, on my devices, on appliances, etc. There are applications where capacitive touchscreen buttons make sense but by and large all they've done over the last 15 years or so is enshittify everything.

[toast0]

> The same is true in a physical card wallet.

You can markup a card in a physical wallet. And then originally identical cards become visually distinguishable.

[mh-]

Riffing on your comment: would be neat if Apple let you add a sticker to the corner of each card.

[pivo]

Yes, exactly. Or some simple text to overlay at the top of the card, it's a very easy problem to solve as far as I can tell.

[jonas21]

> the lack of physical home button

You can use the Accessibility settings to add a virtual home button that's always displayed in the same place on-screen. That seems to work pretty well for the older folks I know.

[odysseus]

It wasn’t obvious where to add a virtual home button, so I’m adding instructions here:

Settings > Accessibility > Touch > Assistive Touch

[kungito]

I put a small piece of tape over my gym card since wife has identical one. Freedom of customization

[dstroot]

> “The biggest UX issue Apple has for that persona isn't the wallet, it's the lack of physical home button”

So true! Also my 84 year old mother can never figure the difference between a web site and an app. If I could add a home button and solve the second issue her life would be much better.

[ubersnack]

I’ve just tried creating a shortcut with the action “Go to Home Screen”, and then assigning the action button to that in Settings -> Action Button - seems to work pretty well so far, hopefully this could work for them as well

[nine_k]

You can put color labels on top of cards, so that they look distinct even in a typical physical wallet that only shows the top part of each card.

Or, say, Google Wallet shows you can the last 4 digits, and allows to name a card, so choosing between identical-looking cards of the same bank is easy (I do it regularly).

But Apple are not fans of letting the user customize things.

[croes]

> The same is true in a physical card wallet.

That’s why Apple has to copy the problem for the wallet?

[coldtea]

>The same is true in a physical card wallet.

If only a digital UI didn't have the same skeuomorpic limitations a physical card has ...oh wait!

(And it's not true that the same issue is true in a physical card wallet. In a physical card, either you get a different design from the bank, or you can trivially write on it with a marker or add a sticker to differentiate it).

>An 80 year old with early onset challenges can work this wallet, pick a card, and then hold the phone to the reader at a store.

A, yes, the standard target group for iOS and the Wallet app in particular.

I swear, the arguments people make...

[Melatonic]

And lack of a "back" button. Although they have sort of improved that with the little teeny tiny back arrow that sometimes appears in the upper left of the screen and is hard to click

[lostlogin]

You can draw or write on a physical card, or add a scratch etc.

The Apple thing where you can switch cards is a weird interface too, even after you have done it a few times.

[ale42]

> The same is true in a physical card wallet.

Except that I can mark the actual cards in some way... plastic labels work perfectly fine on credit/debit cards.

[mbishop]

> The same is true in a physical card wallet.

But I can write on my cards with a pen to visually make them unique.

[ravenstine]

What does an 80 year old (or anyone really) need with more than one or two cards on a daily basis where this would be an issue? Not being flippant; I legit want to know what leads to this. I have multiple cards but there's only one I use 99% of the time, and it's pink so it stands out.

[kergonath]

> What does an 80 year old (or anyone really) need with more than one or two cards on a daily basis where this would be an issue?

In my physical wallet I can take the card I use daily (which is on a limited account and no big deal if I lose it) and leave the others at home. On my phone, there are all the cards I ever used or plan to use at some point in the future.

[mh-]

To that end, I do wish there was a way to hide some cards in wallet inside a "folder" or something. As is, they're there front and center, or not added at all.

[ghaff]

I'm not 80 but do have a backup credit card and debit card and I do travel. So it's not so much "daily basis" but I do have a handful of cards that I keep with me.

[PaulHoule]

In my house we have two businesses [1][2] so that adds two cards. You may also have a card for medical expenses that can be reimbursed with a FSA/HSA or a prepaid debit card that you got as a gift, etc.

[1] don't tell Mr. Fox he's running a business

[2] ... and will probably be adding a third

[bombcar]

Some banks have their debit and credit cards almost identical.

You may have multiple cards from the same bank (personal, family, business).

Different cash back from the same bank making you want to use one card over another.

[robocat]

My bank does a slightly different cutout notch at the top of the card for credit card versus debit card. It is useful for orienting card when inserting into card readers (or cash machines).

Apparently an accessibility thing and maybe a wider standard than Mastercard. See image of cards near top of https://www.mastercard.com.au/en-au/personal/find-a-card/tou...

[anikom15]

ID, Medicare card, HSA card, SSA benefits card, 401k/pension card, debit card, credit card, AAA card, and that assumes he only has one of each!

[rurp]

Apple and Tesla are two companies that somehow have a widespread reputation for great UX that I think are absolutely atrocious in that area. It's not just 70 yearolds, an iphone is unusuable for someone of any age if they've never used one before and don't have someone to tell them how to do core actions like back or home.

Tesla loves to hide critical functionality in non-standard places, often buried in touch screen menus. They can move items at any time. That's insane to me, but I guess I'm the outlier.

Android's move to gestures is lame copycat behavior. I've actually seen people online defending it on the grounds that using gestures feels cooler. Maybe that explains it, many people will take UI gimmicks over solid usability.

[FireBeyond]

Right, especially Tesla. The one thing I will say about Tesla's UI (not UX) is that for a while (and admittedly to this day, still, largely) it looked far better and pleasing than most auto UIs. But 1) others are catching up on that front, and 2) as you say, the UX is often garbage.

[patapong]

So? Computers are the dream machine, we should strive to do better than physical reality, not mimic it.

[Dries007]

Except that personalized cards have been a thing since I've had a card in 2014...

[jbverschoor]

If you have multiple cards with the same bank you'll need to remember the last 4 digits. It's total bs

[yandie]

My Amex cards show up like the physical ones with the actual physical design elements like colors etc… so maybe it’s bank dependent?

[bombcar]

Some banks are better than others - Apple is amusingly bad at it if you have the Apple Card and your wife has you shared on hers. Two white rectangles, both alike in dignity, in fair Cupertino, where we lay our scene.

[Invictus0]

This is silly. "It matches a 70 year old's muscle memory" should not be the sole test of good design; if it were, then we would be plugging mouses and keyboards into our phones.

[pseudalopex]

Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize.[1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[bombcar]

As we more and more mandate smartphones to live, we need to take accessibility into account. Watching "the olds" (which we are all fated to become someday unless something intervenes) fight technology is eye-opening; especially when you realize that you are starting to fight it.

I never knew there was a virtual home button available in iOS; but apparently there is.