[outime]

If you want to build a relationship with someone, try asking them for a small favor rather than offering one first* (or, for example, making random small talk about the weather). Most people love to help and feel useful. If you're new to the gym or want to learn a new exercise, you can simply ask for help. It's something we'naturally do if we weren't so afraid of approaching strangers.

*just paraphrasing a famous quote

[Aurornis]

I have heard this repeated across books and podcasts for years but I’ve only seen it fail in person.

Maybe it might not fail if the “favor” isn’t really a favor at all but instead something almost completely effortless like asking for the time or directions to the bathroom.

However when someone is at the gym and another stranger asks them to stop and do a favor that takes time out of their gym visit it’s just annoying, not a friendship starter.

[outime]

Respectfully, I think you're looking at this from a bad angle. You wouldn't go up to someone in the middle of a set, wearing headphones, and ask them to stop what they're doing to help you. Instead, you find someone who's finishing a set/exercise and politely say something like "hey, I'd like to try this exercise and you seem to know it well, would you mind taking a moment to give me a hand?".

I've personally done this twice this year (I genuinely wanted to learn, I'm not using it as a strategy) and it worked very well. I suppose culture plays a role but I'm in one of those countries where people don't usually socialize with strangers and it still works.

[Aurornis]

I’m typing this comment from the gym, actually. I’m on the friendlier end of the spectrum and really don’t mind helping out when someone could use some actual help. Giving a quick spot or a quick exchange of advice is common.

What I don’t enjoy is when someone ropes me into doing something for them when it becomes clear that they had other intentions for the request. It’s the ulterior motive part that can have the opposite of the intended effect.

When you realize someone asked the favor not really because they needed it but because they thought it would be an opening to get you into conversation, you start wondering what their real motive is. In this case it may be benign enough, but it’s not a great way to start a conversation

[outime]

Yeah that's fair and I see it the same way. For example, when I visit the US and a waiter/waitress is extremely friendly (even asking about my personal life and complimenting whatever) it's usually clear (in most cases anyway) what they're after. But obviously I'm not talking about those situations, I was instead giving examples of genuine requests for help, not tricking people.

[TulliusCicero]

You mean "they're just doing it for tips", but it's not quite that straightforward.

Obviously tips are a factor, but it's common to see overtly friendly service in the US even for untipped positions (cashiers at Trader Joe's is one example that comes to mind). Being friendly in service positions in the US is just part of the culture. It's not universal of course, it depends on the specific business, but it is very common.

[ricardo_lien]

Totally agree, if someone have other intentions for the request, it will make the other person feel like it's dishonest so the conversation usually doesn't go far.

[grvdrm]

Easy one: you are about to lift something and need a spot.

"Hi, can I ask you for a spot?" - hard to argue w/premise of ask and many people would be happy to assist you and see you achieve whatever goal you have for that lift.

[nunez]

i don't ever ask for a spot (and use safety bars instead) because i'm trying to leave the gym as quickly as i can and don't want an unknown-length conversation getting in the way

[grvdrm]

To each their own - I think you're missing out.

I do both. But why I like a spotter: someone to coax another rep (or two) out of you. I'll coach them on that point in advance, too.

[Hobadee]

You need to find a better gym then...

"Hey man, can you spot me?" Is a pretty universal request, and frequently honored. Once you are done with your set, offer to spot them, and while you are both resting after your respective sets, start up some small talk. If small talk works, continue to bigger conversations.

[Aurornis]

I’m typing this comment from the gym, actually! Spotting someone is common and I’m happy to do it.

That’s not what I was talking about. The part that fails is when someone asks for a favor but then it becomes apparent that they didn’t actually need the favor, they were just trying to find a way to talk to you. Like when someone requests a spot and then you come over and realize the weight they’re lifting is so light that there is no reason they needed a spot other than as a conversation starter.

If you actually need help then asking is fine.

If you don’t need help but you’re coming up with reasons to trick someone into giving you help so you can talk to them, that’s a situation with an ulterior motive. People are good at identifying ulterior motives and it doesn’t set you up for conversational success.

If someone just wants to talk, I don’t recommend playing these mind games. Just learn how to strike up conversation. The honesty will be appreciated and it won’t trigger other people’s ulterior motive detectors.

[3sdff]

"If you don’t need help but you’re coming up with reasons to trick someone into giving you help so you can talk to them, that’s a situation with an ulterior motive. People are good at identifying ulterior motives and it doesn’t set you up for conversational success."

Lmao unless you're a female... I've never seen this happen in a gym. And im a religious gym-goer of the past 10 years.

[Aurornis]

That's literally the point of the comment: It's an unnatural thing to do so we shouldn't be suggesting it as a conversation starter.

I wasn't saying it was normal. I'm trying to explain why it's not normal to do that as a way of discouraging readers from thinking it's a trick they should use to start conversations.

[SoftTalker]

No. Don't start up some small talk right then, unless they are clearly inviting it. Leave them alone, they did what you asked. After a couple of workouts, you know their name, they know your name, you are familiar to each other, then maybe you start asking what they do or getting to know more about them.

At least that's what I do. If someone I don't know at all asks me for a spot and then starts immediately hitting me with a bunch of questions/chitchat I'm suspicious. The last time this happened it turned out to be a guy who fancied himself a powerlifting coach and was looking for new clients.

[malfist]

Depends. I'm an introvert, but lifting is my second passion. I've noticed someone doing a lift I want to get better at and asked them for advice, form check, etc and they're usually excited to share the hobby. The reverse is true too.

: After astrophotography, before cycling

[SJMG]

> However when someone is at the gym and another stranger asks them to stop and do a favor that takes time out of their gym visit it’s just annoying, not a friendship starter.

Might be the place you live; this is not my experience at all. I ask randos to spot me every week. People love to help out. Sometimes they'll even keep an eye on you in case you have another set and come offering.

[Aurornis]

I think you’re missing the point. The original advice wasn’t actually about the spot, it was about coming up with a “favor” to ask to trick someone into being friendly.

If you’re just asking for advice or a legitimate assistance and then moving on then there is absolutely no problem with that because it’s honest from beginning to end.

My point is don’t go out of your way to seek favors from people because you think it’s a hack to trick them into being more friendly with you.

Just be honest.

[matwood]

It's not 'coming up with a favor'. You're genuinely asking someone for help that they can provide. This one is more challenging with strangers, but with friends and newer relationships where you know the people better, asking them for help is a big deal. I think too many of us don't want to bother people, but it turns out people generally want to help others around them. As Simon Sinek says, don't take away your friend's ability to help you - it's selfish!

[SJMG]

I'm not missing the point; you made several. The one I engaged I quoted for you. You can see from the sibling comments that several of us took issue with it.

For what it's worth, I agree with your last position about just being honest. If anything, a finding like this should just move the asking of small favors from a stranger towards the norm.

[Izikiel43]

Often I get asked to spot someone while their lift and I don’t mind, maybe you had bad luck.

[matwood]

I was about to say this. Anyone who has spent any time at the gym will have zero problem spotting someone.

[cubefox]

> I have heard this repeated across books and podcasts for years but I’ve only seen it fail in person.

Counterpoint: I have seen it succeed in person. Asking for a little help is a great ice breaker.

[Tade0]

Yeah, that sounds like really bad advice.

Personally I would read this as a weak, but noticeable signal of being a person who is okay with taking advantage of others. Most people are too embarrassed to ask complete strangers for actual favours.

[jbellis]

Your calibration is wildly off. Asking people for a spot is totally normal at any gym with free weights.

[Tade0]

Spotting is a different thing, as you're communicating that you're entrusting your safety with that person.

Imagine someone instead asked you to wipe down the equipment for them or help putting the weights back. Different signal altogether.

[outime]

That sends a different signal, because you're asking someone to do something you could do yourself but simply choose not to, which is essentially what you described above as "taking advantage of others". However this is quite different from what I described in my comment.

If you see every request for help as someone taking advantage of others, I'd encourage you to reconsider why you view everyone that way. It might also be preventing you from seeking help yourself, out of fear of being seen as a leech.

[Tade0]

> If you see every request for help as someone taking advantage of others

Let me rephrase, because there seems to be some kind of misunderstanding here:

To me this advice applied broadly would take the appearance of such a signal, even if weak. The framing of "do it because people like to help" is something which wouldn't even occur to me as motivation to ask for help.

[al_borland]

Those examples aren't something a person needs help on, I think that's the difference. I can't spot my own lift. I can't teach myself what a certain machine does if I don't even know what it's called. I can't understand a new lift I haven't seen before without asking the person doing it what it is and a little about it.

Ask people for help where help is actually needed, not to act as your servant cleaning up behind you.

[Tade0]

The OP of this thread didn't specify the nature of the favours, just gave general advice which I think is not helpful.

[mrlnstk]

I don't think so. Last week someone asked me if they could use one of my climbing equipment for a moment and I said sure. They asked me in a friendly manner and I had a positive feeling of them afterwards.

[jbs789]

Jeez. It happens all the time in the normal world.

[arscan]

I learned about this technique from Owen Wilson’s character in the otherwise exceptionally forgettable movie “The Haunting (1999).” Paradoxically, you are the one doing them a favor by effectively giving them permission to ask for help in the future.

[helgee]

The Ben Franklin effect is real! My experience at conferences has improved significantly by ending talks on a personal note and explicitly saying that I have trouble approaching people but very much like being approached and chat about anything. This usually leads to interesting conversations in the breaks. Please give it a try if you are like me and aimlessly wander the hallways in between sessions otherwise.

[noIdeaTheSecond]

I've learned this by reading Influence by Robert Cialdini.The trick is find something to which they say yes. If they do it their brain kind of tells them: If I did him/her a favor it's because I like him/her.... and liking opens other doors

[InfiniteLoup]

I have heard that this is called the Benjamin Franklin effect, and it appears to be an inversion of the principle of reciprocity coined by Robert Cialdini.

[jasondigitized]

This is a Benjamin Franklin hack right?

[skrebbel]

proper psychopath stuff this. seriously just be nice to people. OP gets it right.

[outime]

It might be psychopathic behavior to make things up just to ask for help, but that's not what I'm saying (and you can see the rest of the thread for reference). What I mean is that one of the many ways relationships are formed is through collaboration, rather than small talk about irrelevant things that 99.9% of the time leads nowhere. Be the first to help, or ask for help when you genuinely need it. There's nothing psychopathic about that, this is as human as it gets - you'll observe the same behavior with certain animals.