[lopis]

Right? Instead we get:

- Saying he's hoping Don allows it

- "I actually did nothing wrong"

- "I actually did nothing wrong" part 2

- "I actually did nothing wrong" part 3

- Why are you so mad? Give me a week

- Why are you so mad? I added more lies to the website

- Why are you so mad? I'm working on it

... over the course of 2 days. Shutting down the website and pulling the app offline should have taken minutes.

[47282847]

People react differently to feedback without necessarily bad intentions. Not everyone is ready to instantly admit mistakes. Empathy goes a long way.

[HumblyTossed]

Reading the above, how much empathy does someone need to give before they can feel the other party has bad intentions?

"No" needs to mean something.

[47282847]

It’s not either-or. You can tell people No and be empathetic to their reasons at the same time. Understanding doesn’t mean agreement or acceptance. It also doesn’t mean you excuse their behavior, or allow it to continue. Empathy doesn’t mean you like what they’re doing. That would be sympathy.

In fact, understanding makes it easier to get people to do what you want.

Some argue that it is even a precondition, to meet someone where they are, to get them to change their ways. The other remaining option is violence/force, which will not fundamentally change their behavior but only shift the problematic behavior elsewhere (and often make it worse).

[ImPostingOnHN]

> It’s not either-or. You can tell people No and be empathetic to their reasons at the same time. Understanding doesn’t mean agreement or acceptance. It also doesn’t mean you excuse their behavior, or allow it to continue. Empathy doesn’t mean you like what they’re doing. That would be sympathy.

We're talking about a discussion in which the author continues their violations after being told "no", and excuses it with their "reasons".

Their reasons can come after they stop the actual wrongdoing, and maybe after they understand what they did wrong and apologize for it.

[dmos62]

We all agree that that would be tactful. But, human empathy is neither an act of excusing the subject of the empathy, nor limited to tactful subjects.

[ImPostingOnHN]

Asking someone to empathize with their persecutor while they are actively harming that someone is generally viewed as abusive gaslighting in most other contexts.

Would you ask physical abuse victims to be empathetic towards their abusers in the middle of a beating, too? What if they were told it hurt, and asked to stop, and they instead continued anyways while repeatedly and politely saying they had good intentions in beating the victim?

[the_snooze]

altek has been given a number of off-ramps and alternatives to proceed. His continued resistance to take those isn't a sign of naivete, it's a sign of bad faith.