[CGamesPlay]

Exactly this. We need to be more precise than blanket statements like "agentic coding is a trap" and start figuring out what a "tasteful" application of agentic coding looks like. ChatGPT is destroying liberal arts curriculums because students can choose to not do anything of the thinking themselves and produce mediocre work that passes the bar. I think the same problem is showing itself with agentic coding, just with more directly measurable consequences (because the pile of software ends up failing in a more spectacular way than the pile of bad writing).

[hibikir]

On liberal arts is simply a matter of what the students want to get out of the class, vs what the teacher wants the students to do: There's a huge disconnect in goals and expectations, so there's no way for the teacher to actually win. The fact that there's such disconnect should give the departments pause.

This doesn't happen at all for using agentic coding: What the programmer wants and what the boss wants are pretty well aligned. There are corner cases where someone isn't allowed to use LLMs, but does it anyway, but in most cases, the organization agrees.

[cernocky]

> what the students want to get out of the class, vs what the teacher wants the students to do: There's a huge disconnect in goals and expectations, so there's no way for the teacher to actually win. The fact that there's such disconnect should give the departments pause.

Unless the teacher's role is to scaffold and support the students in acquiring what the students want, gain trust and lower the disconnect.

[CGamesPlay]

Honestly I'm not really thinking about the boss-programmer relationship, but rather the programmer-agent relationship. At best, you get what fnordpiglet is talking about, where it's a symbiotic relationship. On the other side of the coin, you get a parasitic relationship like the OP is talking about: the agent delivers results, you take credit, you fail to develop (or maintain) long-term skills, you become a non-value-adding middleman, you get replaced.

[gaboAcosta]

To be fair, many people should be replaced. What is happening right now with layoffs in tech is that the overstaffing these organizations have been accruing across the last decade is staggering

[bmitc]

I think it's most easily summarized by: "It's still important to know things and what was important to know before hasn't really changed". If anything, agentic coding highlights and accensuates the need for good systems and software design knowhow.