[cassepipe]

> The e-bike craze, which is putting many people, including kids, in the hospital at an alarming rate, has thus far defied similar regulatory frameworks.

CTRL + f : "suv"

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"truck" ?

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I stopped reading past that. That level of carbrain is intolerable. If you think light vehicles capped at 25km/h is an issue idk what to tell you. At least with delivery robots people don't have to take a one ton metal box everywhere with them just to get groceries because they live in a poorly designed car-centric city.

[olyjohn]

They're not talking about properly regulated e-bikes. They're talking about the huge groups of kids riding around on Surrons and other electric dirt bikes that are actually just motorcycles. They're getting bikes that can do 70mph, wearing no safety gear, and riding them in traffic, and getting hit. That's the e-bike craze the author is talking about.

So calm your tits.

[meowkit]

What are the fatalities for e-bikes vs SUVs in the US per year?

Your comment is irrelevant otherwise because last time I checked cars are the real problem, and concerns over e bikes / delivery bots is just another lame extension of “safetyism” and ignorance around public transport failures that just misses the mark.

“Riding in traffic” is half the issue here. Like trying to explain water to fish.

[schoen]

I'd like to think I'm about as car-skeptical as your average person with no driver license who just got back from taking three forms of transit home from an all-day recreational road cycling event. But I'm a bit nervous about the speeds of some e-bikes.

A friend of mine spent a week in the hospital recently after crashing his new e-bike almost immediately after buying it. One interpretation of his accident is that he didn't have some of the right instincts for riding a bicycle at that speed.

I don't actually have a clear sense of the breakdown of risk attributable to the different factors of lack of appropriate cycling infrastructure, lack of appropriate rider training or experience, lack of appropriate rider expectations, or inherent safety or stability problems of some designs. My friend whom I mentioned above said his doctors told him that they had been seeing a lot of patients who'd crashed e-bikes (as well as electric mopeds and electric skateboards) at speeds that produced fairly serious injuries.

[cassepipe]

That is a regulatory issue and a name issue. Those are actually motorcycles. In Europe e-bikes are capped at 25 km/h (the electric assistance stops at that speed).

So your problem is (electric) motorcycles that are (legally?) accessible without a motorcycle license and motorcycle equipement. For safety what matters is the speed and the weight of the vehicle, the faster and heavier, the more dangerous.

I am also noting that unlike with SUV accidents, your friend put a lot less people in danger if not only himself.

[chao-]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend, and hope they recover well.

Something I think a lot about when it comes to e-bikes, is the level of protective gear people feel they ought to wear on "a bike". Not all cyclists even wear helmets (obviously bad), but in addition to a helmet, on an e-bike you really ought to be wearing elbow and knee protection, purely because of the speed involved.

However, my sense is that people (a) don't think about that at all because they think of it as just like a bicycle, or (b) don't want travel with all of that extra gear. They want to treat an e-bike like a bicycle, when it is something much more.

I say all of this as a cyclist (non-e-bike) and rollerblader. On my bicycle I will just wear a helmet, but because of the particulars of rollerblading, I always wear elbow-pads and knee-pads. Differing circumstances require different adaptations.

[cassepipe]

> they ought to wear on "a bike"

Indeed, if it's going above 50 km/h, it's not a bike it's a motorbike. Protective gear should match the speed and weight of your vehicle. To drive a motorbike, you should have motorbike license and equipment. It feels like a regulatory issue frankly.

[NDlurker]

They can both be a problem. I saw a kid hitting a dike like a ramp with one of these electric dirt bikes. I've seen kids too small for these cruising around way too fast with no helmet.

Big trucks and SUVs are a much bigger problem. But that doesn't mean kids riding around on motorcycles isn't a problem either.

[cassepipe]

The point of contentions is calling them e-bikes instead mopeds or e-motos or motorcyles, which you did, but the article didn't. And they are a journalist so I hold them to higher standard.

[pests]

By your logic, heart disease and cancer are the real concern. Why you so worried about cars? Your comment is irrelevant otherwise.

[cassepipe]

I think we can tackle different issues at the same time

For heart issues, it is a bit hard to fix. You need a healthy lifestyle is general is something you need the correct environment for and a good education about. Still, it's not impossible and any sane country has food labeling requirements and education around it as well as promotion of physical exercise. It's being done.

Similarly car-centric city design is not easy at first but it can be done and has been done:

Relax zoning and parking requirements, provide good fast collective transport alternatives,that is with dedicated lanes and safety staff. The general idea is that you shouldn't be forced to have a car if you don't want one. Even people who do want to keep their cars will be happier because there will be less people on the road overall: Imagine that traffic jam you're stuck into if half the people vanish because they are using a bike or a subway, woosh, no more traffic jam.

[alamortsubite]

In case anyone has trouble visualizing that, try picturing this many cars moving so quickly and efficiently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEpjPRs4Iio

Also, the woman with the roller bag.

[daemonologist]

I think you're right, but journalists have gotta stop calling them ebikes. We already have a widely used term that fits them perfectly and is legally accurate - moped.

[olyjohn]

They're not mopeds. They have no pedals, only stationary foot pegs. They are full on motorcycles capable of freeway speeds. Kids are riding motorcycles with no licenses, helmets or training.

[pests]

A small city near me in the suburbs of Detroit just had to have a town meeting / facebook post / etc about teens driving electric scooters and bikes driving recklessly, causing accidents, injuring themselves and others, etc.

[chao-]

Your caveat makes sense, and I agree those are a serious issue. However, the article doesn't say "illegal e-bikes", "e-motos", "suped-up e-bikes", "dirt bikes", or anything like that. It only says "e-bikes". Even their link to another article is discussing 20-to-28-mph e-bikes, and refers to the faster categories as "e-motos".

If that is truly what McNamara meant, it is very sloppy that they failed to say so.

EDIT: For anyone downvoting me, I am respecting the text of the article, because that is what most people will read. Most people will not see olyjohn's caveats and context (which again, I agree represent the real problem).

[mmooss]

I generally agree, though ...

> At least with delivery robots people don't have to take a one ton metal box everywhere with them just to get groceries because they live in a poorly designed car-centric city.

Robots are not needed and do not enhance grocery delivery. The ones I've seen aren't large enough for a grocery order. I suppose it would be entertaining to see a line of them proceeding to a delivery.

[XorNot]

Okay but if they're delivering take out the benefit is even greater - mobilizing the 1 ton metal box to get a take out order is even worse economics.