[2ndorderthought]

Interesting to see the positive sentiment around kimi2.6 qwen3.6 and deepseek relative to the negative. I hope the trend of people appreciating open models continue. They aren't namesakes yet, but it's a higher percentage then I thought it would be. Especially on HN where we are all talking about businesses.

I am upset because now anthropic, openai, meta, etc will continue their smear campaigns here. But I am also happy because it will make HN less useful when they do.

Everything is a give and take I guess. Excited to see where the equilibrium sits

[SilverElfin]

Is it just “smear campaigns”? Don’t get me wrong - I don’t want big tech or big AI monopolies and appreciate the open weight models. But it’s also true that Chinese companies are basically stealing through distillation and also that they censor to align to CCP rules. They’re problematic in a different way.

What I want is more fully open models where everything is shared. Data, training algorithms, weights. That way we can figure out if we should trust it.

[2ndorderthought]

They are all stealing from each other just like how they all stole from us. Grok supposedly admitted to distilling from open ai for instance.

I think it's also unfair to say their success is solely due to stealing data. They are contributing a lot of advances to the literature about what they are doing. The proof is in the results we have 27b models you can vibe code with. Not 1t+

It's murky sure. But there are smear campaigns about how people can't trust China too. There's some truth to that too but we can't trust the US either so local models are an interesting way for China to offer us some level of sovereignty.

[miyoji]

> I think it's also unfair to say their success is solely due to stealing data.

Their models would be completely useless if they didn't train on stolen data, so no, it's not unfair at all.

[2ndorderthought]

Name one company selling AI models who didn't steal their data or aquire it through dubious or unethical means?

If anything it's a Robinhood story.

Regardless I doubt they would be useless at all. Alibaba has access to tons of data and they make qwen. Qwen models are insane for their size.

[miyoji]

> Name one company selling AI models who didn't steal their data or aquire it through dubious or unethical means?

That's what I said. I was absolutely referring to OpenAI and Anthropic as well as the Chinese models.

[2ndorderthought]

I misunderstood you. I am so used to people just slamming local models over data issues and I knee jerk replied to you. Sorry.