[3dsnano]

friends, WHEN you are asked to implement something like this at your job, which will you choose: object (& hold ground, loose job) OR comply (& keep job)

as practitioners, where do we hold the line between telemetry and surveillance?

[frogperson]

I choose not to work at places like linked in, meta, or any place that accepts Saudi or Israeli funding. It makes it a little harder to find a job, but i sleep better at night.

[aryonoco]

For similar reasons, I have been working in the public sector (Australian state government) for the past 5 years and couldn’t be happier.

I’m lucky that I’m in a team which is hands on and does a lot of very interesting things. From building CRUD apps which are used in management and response to bushfires (wildfires) to more interesting things like building a datalake which amalgamates and stores weather data from multiple sources to building near real time CDC pipelines and making our transactional data available to our in house team of data scientists who then use that data to do fascinating stuff that eventually results in for example making sure that our response to bushfires takes into account the impact and safety of endangered species.

And when I look at the underlying data and the trends and and projections of just how bad bushfires are going to get in the next 30 years and how we must be so much nimbler and smarter just to survive, the work takes on a whole new level of meaning.

Don’t get me wrong, there are times the internal bureaucracy absolutely drives me mad. And I am aware that I could be earning much more in the private sector. But I get to work with a team who are really passionate and enthusiastic about their job, and I get to sleep at night knowing that unlike my previous jobs, this time I am not just making someone who is already uber rich, richer.

If you had told the teenage Utilitarian me that I would one day work for, and enjoy working for, government, I would have thought hell must have frozen over.

[KetoManx64]

> and I get to sleep at night knowing that unlike my previous jobs, this time I am not just making someone who is already uber rich, richer.

You can provide value in the free market, or you can work in a public sector where the people paying your salary have no choice but pay their taxes to cover your salary or risk going to prison.

[matof]

Agree, having a strong moral compass is a must have yet becoming more and more important. Very easy to say, incredibly hard to execute when the offer is big enough...

[HerbManic]

In years to come you will be so thankful that you took that path.

As they say, better to be a poor master than a rich slave.

[vehemenz]

I wouldn’t lump in Israel in, but good for you.

[bravetraveler]

I got you covered, boo. I will! For sport.

Anyway, for those in this situation, some anecdotes. I've outright refused to do questionable things and kept my job. I've also played incompetent so the sharks look elsewhere. Point being... options exist, don't negotiate [only] with yourself.

Would be remiss if I missed the opportunity to quote Louis Rossman: "don't accept the premise of assholes"

[KoftaBob]

There have been several spywares developed in Israel and that have been used by them and other governments against civilians, below are just a few examples. Why wouldn't you lump Israel in?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragon_Solutions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytrox#Predator

[vehemenz]

If your criterion holds for spyware merely developed in a state, then that commits you not working in the US or UK as well. Something to think about.

Putting that aside, my moral positions about Israel are rooted in the righteousness of the Jews' cause and their historical struggle. My personal self-righteousness is inadequate in comparison.

[traderj0e]

It's just that I'm an American, so I don't want to work for Israel. If we're making cyberwarfare tools for the US, sure.

[zulban]

There's a third choice. Say you'll do it but do it poorly, or drag your feet forever. Hard to prove you intentionally did a bad job.

If that's the game you're playing tho, maybe time to find another job too ;)

[ulimn]

I think it's also an option to anonymously tell the world what will happen. That way you keep your job and still people are at least aware. Unless if you are one of like 3 people who know about it and they would immediately know it was you.

[lucb1e]

I wonder the same. Maybe it's made by people who feel like they wouldn't easily find another job and need the job for healthcare or financial reasons (living paycheck to paycheck)? And it's ordered by managers in similar situations, whose managers want to see increased revenue and don't care how? Somewhere in the chain it feels like there should be someone who says 'wtf are we doing'. It's strange

To answer your question though: I'd object of course, I'm very lucky to be well enough off that I can currently make that choice without serious repercussions. Do you think someone would come out on HN and say "oh sure yeah I have no morals!", at least without it being a throwaway where you'd have no idea if it's real?

[traderj0e]

Honestly I would implement this. Chrome's fault for telling every website what extensions are installed. User isn't harmed anyway.

[0cf8612b2e1e]

How do you feel about burglars exploiting bad locks? Known flaw, so the owner had it coming? Insurance will make them right in the end?

[traderj0e]

Nobody is getting burgled here

[3dsnano]

cool perspective++