[xxpor]

Unfortunately the blog didn't link to the SFP+ module they're using, but everyone should know there's effectively 2 different generations of 10gbit sfp+ to ethernet^H10BASE-T modules. The old gen, labeled as 30 meters, draws ~3 W, and gets extremely hot (to the point it'll usually cause link flaps), and the newer gen, usually labeled as 100m or 80m, draws ~1.5 W, and runs much, much cooler.

Example of the new gen: https://www.amazon.com/Wiitek-Transceiver-Compatible-UF-RJ45...

Old gen: https://www.amazon.com/10Gtek-SFP-10G-T-S-Compatible-10GBase...

Typically the old gen uses a Marvell AQR113C, and the new gen uses a Broadcom chip that I forget the number of off hand.

[Aurornis]

This is the most important thing to know for anyone trying to do SFP+ to 10GBASE-T. It's too bad it wasn't covered in the article.

The thermal performance of the new modules is so much better that they'll make you want to throw away all of your old modules as soon as you try one. The old ones consumed a lot of power and put out a lot of heat. You can find examples of people adding active cooling to blow on them because they're so bad.

The new ones are great. They get warm but it's completely manageable. And the power draw is also closer to what the SFP+ ports on your device were probably designed to handle, so compatibility is better too.

[protocolture]

I used to support a company that refused to run fibre, and had just run ethernet everywhere with the old 10GBE modules. Half their links were constantly flapping as the hardware powered off to cool down.

Even with the new modules, their ethernet cable runs were always in excess of what 10GBE could handle. I remember one at ~140 meters that was constantly renegotiating.

The worst part is, they had not a single element in their network that didnt support fibre. The fibre sfp modules for their radios was the same cost as the copper.

I love that these 10GBE modules exist but please (please please) just run fibre if you can.

[rayiner]

10Gbase-T is here to stay because you can deliver POE over it to wifi APs.

[protocolture]

Oh totally, heck I pitched the concept of a 10GBE Passive POE switch the other day.

That said, IIRC a lot of people running fibre + power.

[rayiner]

BCM84891L. I like these modules (select 80 or 100 m in the drop down): https://www.luleey.com/product/10gbase-t-sfp-to-rj45-copper-...

Using this module, I was able to get a stable 10 gig over a 75 feet long, 20 year old run of Cat 5e.

[perarneng]

I had this issue with old gen Unifi SFP+ to RJ45 10Gbe, 3 failed. Needed gloves to remove them. Bought newer gen and they are warm but i dont need gloves.

[buildbot]

Same, just had two fail, in a qnap 100gb switch with a reasonable level of cooling… Meanwhile the 100g optics are actually doing just fine!

[itchynosedev]

The difference between fiber module and RJ45 is massive. I found it funny that Ubiquity own switches (at least my Enterprise 8 PoE - the one they call "vintage" - I kid you not) will set the fan default to 35 (whatever that value means) if you use SFP+ RJ45 module (regardless of temps), and have fans at 0 without the module, when the switch is below 75 celsius.

Ironically, one of my switches with the RJ45 module runs cooler than the one without because Ubiquity does not let you do any fan control on Unifi Enterprise 8 PoE.

[lostlogin]

They can be a pig to remove from the switch too. My god.

[jdprgm]

If you want to buy the cheaper old ones and are concerned about heat just add a usb fan. I have the same mikrotik switch in the post and 2 sfp to rj45 + this fan https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G059G86?th=1 sitting on top and it makes a dramatic difference in temp.

[pdimitar]

I appreciate the craftiness of this but with the years I stopped being a fan of Frankenstein setups. The vendor should be honest; if the piece of tech is expected to heat up, just add a fan to it and manual toggle and a knob to control it or have it work auto.

[e40]

The "new gen" link you says

> Built-in Newest Marvell chip, Max. Power Consumption 1.65W

Is that wrong?

Also, I'm using this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B3F5DSXJ?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_...

which says

> Build in Marvell chip, Low Power Consumption (2.0W MAX @ 30m)

I have had 0 problems. One I use for my Sonic.net Ont and the other for my a 10G switch. Maybe I don't have issues because the cable lengths are so short (1-2')?

I just checked and both are VERY hot to the touch. Now I'm worried.

[xxpor]

Oh, looks like Marvel came out with one too. I assume it'll work fine.

[CSSer]

Wow, and at essentially the same price!

[xxpor]

Yeah, the new ones have gotten much cheaper it seems. About a year ago they were ~2x.

[selectodude]

I think a lot of patents have recently expired for 10GbaseT. I’ve noticed it getting a lot more accessible.

[colechristensen]

Any fs.com recommendations? (or, just look at the power numbers?)

https://www.fs.com/c/10g-sfp-63?203=21772

[butvacuum]

I forget how I went about it, but I was able to get which chipsets their modules used. But honestly, unless they've sold out- 10GTek has been good for home use for me- at least for AOC and DAC. all my bidi stuff is second hand ciso off ebay

[butvacuum]

can't edit: I think I just asked FS.

[e40]

I want to thank you. I replaced the two old gen SFP+ modules with a new one and a DAC SFP cable. Both are quite a bit cooler than before.

[butvacuum]

the AQC chips at least work with 1/10 only ports on older switches. And, it's not that hot, a single 1x1x0.5cm heatsink takes care of it. One large issue is that mikrotik's thermal design for SFP+ is a joke.

[thefz]

Thanks! 10Gb Eth is insane for exactly this reason (optical SFP+ modules are way cheaper and more reliable)

[apelapan]

I don't agree that it is insane. It is less efficient than ideal, but 10gbit over copper is not necessarily dangerously hot or difficult to power.

I have a MikroTik CRS304-4XG-IN on my office desk with three out of four ports at 10gbit and it is perhaps 20 degrees above ambient on the outside. Warm but not hot. Passively cooled design.

A normal Windows laptop runs hotter than that when idle.

[gerdesj]

I have several 48 port 10G copper switches in my computer room with 40G uplinks. Dell OS9 jobbies. They are a bit noisy, but they don't actually run that hot. I also have some HPE 1G 48 porters and they run roughly the same temperature.

I used to daily drive Gentoo on my laptop. Lovely in the winter!

[pama]

Yes the noise is my main complaint for my 10G switch. I didnt expect that high frequency part.

[oakwhiz]

Minor nitpick but they are both considered Ethernet. The 4 pair copper one is 10GBASE-T.

[crote]

The main issue is that it is ancient.

The cost, power, and length issues meant that it wasn't exactly well-received by the datacenter market back in 2006(!) when it was first released: DAC was the far more attractive option for a link from server to top-of-rack, and fiber was obviously superior (if not plain required) for anything beyond a hop to the next aisle over.

This left an incredibly tiny market, so obviously beyond the initial investment very little effort was put into developing new products for it. So now the prosumer market is hitting the limit of 1Gbps, 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T (both based on the techniques of 10GBASE-T, by the way) are becoming the norm, and suddenly network vendors remember that box of ancient 10GBASE-T transceiver chips that has been collecting dust in their warehouse.

Aaand suddenly you've got people buying what they think is a brand-new technology, but which is actually designed and manufactured using technology from a decade and a half earlier, and 10GBASE-T gets a bad name for being "hot" and "power-hungry". Turns out it is actually reasonably well-behaved if you actually make use of modern technology!

I expect we'll be using it for quite a while. 25GBASE-T and 40GBASE-T are even deader: A standard from 2016, which a decade later doesn't have a single available product? Mandatory switching to Cat8 cabling - and only a 30 meter range??? And no forwards-looking compatibility? Yeeaah, no thanks.

[rconti]

Right, but for example my fiber ONT only has an rj45 port so I'm stuck using one of these for the link to my UDM Pro. The router and my core switch use cheap DACs.

[eurleif]

Have you looked into using an unofficial ONT instead of the one supplied by your ISP? See: https://pon.wiki/guides/install-the-8311-community-firmware-...

[rconti]

I have not. I'm not sure what this does for me. My ONT is not an optional expense and I'm not bothered by using cat6 here.

[rayiner]

Yeah but home users already often have 75-100 foot runs of cat 5e in the walls, and those work fine for 10G-baseT.

[Havoc]

Problem is you get X1 pcie gen4 cards for 10g eth but not sfp

…and a lot of consumer boards have spare x1s

[ssl-3]

They're out there. Search engines are just ubiquitously poisoned to the point of uselessness for common terms[1].

But searching for specific gen4 x1 10-gig chips (like RTL8127) does produce some reasonably-inexpensive options for cards with sfp+. Give it a whirl. :)

[1]: I wrote this like it's a new problem, but looking back it may be an issue as old as the hills. I distinctly remember searching for any-brand 10-meg cards with DEC Tulip chips ~30 years ago, because that was the inexpensive PCI chip that actually worked. :)

[thommo101]

In your searching did you find any "mainstream" pcie gen4x1 SFP+ cards? I only found the H!Fiber model - which looks perfect, except that our work won't buy from that supplier.

[chaz6]

What's really insane is 40G - nobody wants it so you can buy kit for next to nothing. I got a 72×QSFP Cisco Nexus (with EVPN & VXLAN) for £50 inc P&P.

[justsomehnguy]

Old, hot and loud.

Industry went for 25G and 40G gear is long EoS and EoL.