[Meekro]

Coming from Sublime, I'd never even heard of a Language Server when I first tried Zed. As I recall, disabling particular kinds of warnings required copy-pasting some pretty exotic incantations into my project config. All of it was poorly documented, and it felt like I was doing something nobody expected me to do. Instead, I should have been able to mouse over a particular warning and say "don't warn me again about things like this", at which point Zed should edit the project config for me.

[rob74]

Well, PHPStorm (and the other JetBrains IDEs) does it this way. You can disable a certain "inspection" globally, per project, per file, per method or just for one occurence - the last three work by inserting annotations into the code. Then again, PHPStorm costs money (not just if you want AI assistance), and is based on (drum roll) Java technology (although JetBrains don't advertise this fact a lot nowadays).

[throawayonthe]

that does sound like a pretty nice ui idea to add to code actions (command + .), it already lets you one-click add an ignore comment iirc so probably not too hard to wire a global per-project option

however, i think LSP or integrated linters/typecheckers have been standard fare in editors for a while now (zed does seem to have a lot more set up by default, but i like the sane defaults most of the time). The "correct" solution would be to configure whatever lsp zed is running for the project the way you want, and reap the benefits even outside of zed. for php the tools are listed here: https://zed.dev/docs/languages/php the main one seems to be Phpactor and you should be able to configure it globally or per project https://phpactor.readthedocs.io/en/master/usage/configuratio...

but i understand the frustration, sometimes i try to navigate an ancient python codebase and it really is a sea of red

[Groxx]

Yeah, I really can't stand every vscode has done to the ecosystem for settings. JSON as a storage format for config is entirely fine, but it's a truly awful UX for changing things. But they're successful and it's easy to build, so everyone mindlessly copies them.

[spockz]

Mind you that vscode does have an ui to change the settings. Also it has code completion when editing the json because of the linked json schema.

[Groxx]

It has a UI to change some of the settings. And not even all of the settings with autocomplete help - I have no idea why those aren't equivalent to each other at least as a fallback, but they very clearly are not. And plugins frequently have major settings documentation gaps, including absolutely massively used ones like Go.

Compare that to something like a JetBrains product.

[DangitBobby]

Zed is highly configurable via JSON (so already puts them in a tier above many editors) and also for some things like shortcuts provides an actual interface for editing that JSON. I imagine as time goes on they'll expose more interfaces for editing configurations. For now I'll take JSON over nothing/gui-only.

[iknowstuff]

You should learn about LSPs

[mtoner23]

LSP is how all editors work today and its simplified everything so so much. you should figure them out

[_verandaguy]

While this comment is overly general (some major editors ship without LSP support built in; many more do not have a sane configuration out-of-the-box), it is useful to learn about them and how your editor of choice integrates with them.

The landscape isn't generally intuitive, unfortunately, and while it's getting better, understanding the differences and interop places between LSP, Treesitter, DAP, your editor, and the underlying language-specific tooling can be a big, confusing time hog.

That said, and to be clear: LSP's been a huge boon for me. I used a minimal, kinda-broken configuration for a while with Python, then rebuilt the whole thing when I switched to Rust for work, and holy hell, this thing's awesome.

[nickelpro]

This is way too equivocating.

You are a craftsman, learn your tools. Could you imagine the equivalent from other professionals? A machinist saying, "Understanding the differences and interop places between the DRO, hand controls, and CNC controls for the lathe can be a big confusing time hog."

It takes a couple of hours, and it's a tool you use every single day. Learning how it works is the price of entry, not a mountain to overcome.

[_verandaguy]

It is a fact that some useful things in the software world are a pain in the ass to learn, and that they could be better on that front.

LSP is one of those things, or at least it has been, for a while.

LSP is also something that's not necessary to writing quality code; it's absolutely a major quality-of-life boost, but before rewriting my configs after switching to Rust, my LSP usage was limited to being a slightly faster autocomplete engine more than anything. I didn't have keybinds set up for going to definitions, implementations, or references of symbols. I still put out what I think was decent code. I'm also better off now that I've adopted a more useful config.

IMO it's an important part of this industry (among others) to let developers have whatever workflow they want, within reason. If someone decides they want to invest the time into setting up LSP with their editor, that's their prerogative. If not, that's fine too. I don't know who among my present or past coworkers use LSP outside of occasionally chatting about editor configs with one or two of them, because they've usually figured out a workflow that lets them produce respectable code, and I've never had to question their tooling before questioning their methodology.

[nickelpro]

The context is a user adopting an editor that has LSP integration and is relying on the language server. That's why I said "it's a tool you use every single day".

If your tool is TextMate, you should learn how TextMate grammars work. If your tool is vi, you should learn how modal editing works. If your tool is Ed, you don't need to learn anything because "Ed is the standard text editor".[1]

[1]: https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html

[teo_zero]

To be fair, vi has got its dose of "modal editing is difficult to learn" criticism for years. Why shouldn't zed receive the same treatment if configuring LSP is a pain point for many newcomers?

[serf]

lol ok but where does it stop?

I got into programming long before LSPs and MCPs.

The only craftsmen are the ones at the edge of the lingo tree?

To use your own analogy, as a machinist myself : I can master the concept of the lathe and bow drill without learning simulation-driven CAM, and I would be no less a machinist than the guy pressing buttons on a brand new Haas.

If you work via notepad.exe and assembly with a compiler and linker ready in the next window, fine! the work is what matters.

[nickelpro]

It stops at the tools you use, "it's a tool you use every single day". If it's not a tool you use every day, you don't need to learn it.

If you don't use language servers, you don't engage with development environments which rely on them, you need not learn them.

If you're making chips on a Monarch 60 you don't need to learn shit about CNC. If you're pushing buttons on a Haas you do.

If you're coming from a Monarch and want to try pushing buttons on the Haas on the kids are using, you need to learn how CNC works. That's your job. If you want to switch from notepad to Zed, you need to learn how language servers work.

[galaxyLogic]

> If you want to switch from notepad to Zed, you need to learn how language servers work.

Can you not use Zed without knowing how language servers work?

[andai]

https://notepadexe.com/

Every day we stray further from God.

[_verandaguy]

Satire is dead

[daemin]

Except these days companies are telling you to not be a craftsman but a supervisor.

I want to be a craftsman and know my tools and want to actually enjoy using them, but it's becoming less accepted to do so.

[alwillis]

AI agents also use LSP to be more efficient with source code [1].

[1]: https://code.claude.com/docs/en/plugins-reference#lsp-server...

[parampampam]

Definitely not all.

[tecoholic]

If you have never used an LSP and don’t need it, you can just turn the LSP off. I do it from the UI (thunderbolt icon on bottom bar I think) for some projects which don’t have LSP typing support. There should also be a setting to turn off permanently.

[meatloaf_man]

https://xkcd.com/1172/

[keithnz]

you could just get your AI to configure it for you