[encom]

Two of my nerdy passions are coffee and HiFi, and I've observed some degree of... let's call it "magical thinking" in both. Obsessing and over-exaggerating minute details of the process. The extremist audiophiles to a much more ludicrous and comical degree admittedly.

Brewing coffee and listening to music becomes much more of a ritual process, than a task grounded in reason, and the end result is unlikely to pass a double blind test.

"Let people enjoy things!"

Yes, yes. But if you're buying audiophile fuses or power cables, or you're using TDS meters, a 5000$ grinder or if your kettle has an app, in the words of one of the great thinkers of our time: it's time to stop.

Buy a reasonably priced burr grinder, an Aeropress or decent pour-over, and some nice quality coffee, and you will be drinking better coffee than 95% of people.

[fabian2k]

There's certainly people that focus too much on minor details. And you really don't need to go into the 4-digit in spending to get very good coffee (especially if you don't want Espresso). But I was a bit surprised how much small details can matter in brewing coffee.

I'm using an Aeropress and an 1ZPresso handgrinder. I found that it helped a lot to do things exactly the same way each time. It reduced variability and made it easier to adjust a parameter like grind size. In particular I found stirring to be a really finicky parameter with a potentially large effect. If I stirred vigorously without changing anything else, the coffee got noticeably bitter. I switched to not stirring at all, it's mixed plenty just by pouring the water. Makes the workflow easier and reduces variability.

So while I think there's plenty of ritual around coffee that has no real effect, I suspect the value lies in keeping to exactly the same method and performing all steps the same way each time.

[seemaze]

I recently replied to a thread about La Marzocco espresso machines[0] regarding the value proposition of expensive coffee gear. I think the mistake in magical thinking is the attempt to rationalize the high cost through a comparative cost benefit analysis with retail (non-commercial) competition.

"I just overhauled a la marzocco sitting in my kitchen. People often inquire about whether it's worth buying an espresso machine for the home, or if it's a good investment as a coffee connoisseur.

My reply is always that it was the best money I've ever spent and the worst investment I've ever made. It's a lifestyle choice, and a questionable one at that. But one I'd make again every time given the opportunity."

[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47844085#47885805

[Slow_Hand]

Reading the discussion in these comments I have the exact same thought about parallels with hi-fi enthusiasts. Then I saw your comment. 100% agree.

The person I really want to hear from about brewing coffee is a chef. Someone who probably doesn't have the time to nerd-out to this degree, has great taste, sees the big picture and is likely to have settled on the most practical balance between quality and diminishing returns.

[Theodores]

It is time to stop!!!

...and I stopped. I didn't get to the $5000 grinder stage, but the annual costs of coffee were alarming. I went for black tea instead, served in insulated mugs and flasks. Originally the plan was to just have coffee as a treat when meeting friends in coffee serving establishments, however, that doesn't happen. I buy coffee for whomever I am with and keep my flask below the table, still spending, but not consuming.

For all the thousands of coffee cups had, I can't think of any contenders for the 'greatest one'. Hence, despite the rituals and expense, it was all forgettable. Yet I was so insistent on getting my fix.

After some time away, I can see coffee for what it is. There are too many children in the south doing things with coffee beans for grown adults in the north. Shouldn't they be in school? Tea isn't quite the same, picking leaves is different, even though I haven't done it myself, there are worse jobs to have.

The paraphernalia aspect is also something I now reject. Fancy coffee machines and even the Aeropress just says 'it's time to stop'.

Similarly, the elevation of the job of 'coffee maker' to the grand role of 'barista' irks me. We place the 'barista' up there with the greatest composers, rocket surgeons and rock gods. Sure, a 'barista' might be your greatest ever hero if all you do is drink coffee and the only work in your country is in customer service, but I don't see the 'barista' job as worthy of a pedestal, particularly in countries where the pay comes primarily from tips.

Then there is everything else, the take-out cup, the animal excretions, the added sugar. My comfort drink of old, a frothy latte in a plastic lined paper cup, is not what my body really needed. You have got the stimulant from the caffeine, and you don't need stimulants if you get all your nutrients. The mix of milk and sugar would be considered wrong by a true coffee drinker, regardless, you have got diabetes in a cup right there, with saturated fats and 'free' sugars. You are just asking for arteries to be blocked and for dementia to happen.

Whether aware of it or not, there is status with beverages. We all want to eat from the king's table, not the animal's stable. I can't say I impressed anyone with coffee, whether making it or drinking it. One lesson learned, make coffee for people and it just becomes expected. Being a keen coffee drinker doesn't make you cool. I am not saying that drinking just black tea makes one cool, but, for people that are coffee dependent, with other beverages consumed, the idea of drinking just tea, with no additives, is crazy talk.

Each to their own, but I am seeing so many upsides to 'tea only' that I see no reason to change, apart from tannin on teeth, which can be a problem if also consuming lots of colourful spices. The money aspect is an invisible upside, it is not like I get a lump sum for all that money saved, even though it is thousands a year. The lack of waste is definitely really good, since I don't have glass jars, single use cups, plastic milk cartons and more coffee-related trash to dispose off. Tea is actually valuable in the second life for composting reasons.

Anyway, having been away from coffee for quite a few years, I still appreciate the smell, but I am not tempted. To me the obsession with coffee is amusing, much like seeing what some cats will do with catnip, it just seems a bit unnecessary. My taste buds have adapted, I moved on.

[poloniculmov]

There's forced labour and child labour in tea growing, it's mostly grown in countries that have different definitions for human rights. And unless you're buying specialty tea, those farmers are paid pennies while doing hard work.

I don't think there's any ethical consumption of industrial scale agriculture that cannot be mechanized, because we don't want to pay the real costs.

[Theodores]

Whine away bro!

[cf100clunk]

SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Caffeine withdrawal can cause chronic, acute migraine headaches.

Satire of such package labels, but unfortunately true for some coffee devotees.