[aa-jv]

Short time?

No, the US has been losing its stance in the world since the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003, murdering a million people in cold blood on the basis of outright lies.

It has been downhill ever since then. The support for the Gaza genocide is just one in a long list of atrocities for which the American state is responsible, and for which the entire world is starting to hold America responsible.

The rest of the world has been watching, and knows this - even if Americans, in their bubble, do not.

Its the war crimes, crimes against humanity, and massive violations of human rights at scale which cause the world to lose face in the American system.

Plus, the way Americans treat their own people - nobody wants to live like an American, any more.

Until someone comes up with an antidote for the warrior narcissism which inflicts a huge portion of American society, the maw of the abyss remains wide open.

[gorgolo]

I’m not from the US and not trying to defend the US actions, but on Iraq and Gaza, much of Europe takes the same position and goes along with it (and even directly joined the wars and sent troops).

I find the online opinion on Europe / US relations interesting. Online you’d think Europe and US are about to split. But in real life, Europe is more dependent on the US than ever. In terms of energy (Russian fossil fuels basically replaced by US fossil fuels), defense, economy (European economy relatively smaller now than 20 yrs ago), and they just finished signing very one sided deals where they guarantee energy purchases and investment after the tariff war. I think there’s a disconnect between European commenters and European politicians.

[benterix]

> I’m not from the US and not trying to defend the US actions, but on Iraq and Gaza, much of Europe takes the same position and goes along with it (and even directly joined the wars and sent troops).

What?!

I'm not talking about the recent events when Europe not only didn't joint Trump's war but openly refused the use of its military bases. Even in the past when the so-called "coalition of the willing" was formed, Europe had the biggest protests in its history. There were not hundreds of thousands but millions people on streets.

So your picture of uniformity was already false 20 years ago, and now it's just crystal clear.

[gorgolo]

Not trying to be a cynic, but I think you’ve got a bit of a rosy view of what happened and what is happening.

Concerning past wars: yes there were enormous protests. Just like today, many people disagreed with what was happening. But the same was true in the US; many Americans also disagreed with the Iraq war. There was an entire Bush vs Kerry election on that theme. In the end though, there’s a difference between what normal citizens are saying, and what the country actually does. This applies to both the US and Europe. With Iraq, despite all these protests, the majority of European states actually joined the war, with a few standout exceptions like the neutral states and France/Germany. And then they joined the US in several more regime change operations over the following two decades (and with these somehow the IS didn’t even seem like the main cheerleader).

With Iran now, there’s what normal people say and what politicians say and do. I haven’t seen any of the major leaders actually condemn the war apart from Spain. Most tweets are along the lines if “we are watching with concern but we agree something had to be done”. Macron only piped up against it like a month in, and that seemed as much related to Trump insulting his wife as it was to the war itself.

EU is the third largest economy and has 450m people. If they genuinely wanted to do something about this, about their oil being cut off and all the rest of it, they would have.

On Gaza too. Despite the large protests, and there are a few small nations plus Spain being vocal about it, but what concrete actions has the EU and European nations taken on Gaza? And have you actually seen the UK and German government responses to the protests?

[benterix]

It's not exactly rosy as you say, but the leaders are increasingly open with Trump as to what they actually think (see Merz's latest comments) and he uses this as an excuse to realize what they planned a few years ago. There is zero chance that any Europen state starts bombing Iran.

OTOH, while refusing to do wrong is already something, there are limits to what they can actively start doing - and concrete consequences if they start doing something Trump doesn't like. He's highly unstable and can decide to take a decision that can be perceived as crazy, and harmful to the USA, but at the same time harmful to the ex-ally who decided to stand up to him. So the EU leaders basically do what they can to just wait the crazy guy out.

[aa-jv]

Indeed, we are discussing the propaganda wasteland of Western media, more than anything else.

American media are owned by the same people making profit from selling the bombs falling in the genocide - so, it won't freely and openly report European upset at America's war crimes so readily.

[paleotrope]

Today it's Iran, or maybe Iraq 2003. Or maybe those pharma factories in Sudan in the 90s. Or perhaps the Serbia bombing. Or maybe Iraq 1991. Or again Panama in 88. Or maybe Grenada. Or maybe Laos. Cambodia. Vietnam. Haiti. Japan. China. Phillipines. Cuba. etc.

It's always something. We are always losing our stance.

[aa-jv]

Yeah, maybe you should, as a citizen, start holding your war criminals accountable for their crimes.

You can't keep buying the worlds' love with trinkets while murdering its children, Americans.

[Fnoord]

Serbia was NATO.