[n8cpdx]

You need density for trains, but Portlanders think it is a war crime to ask you to work from an office or tear down a dead mall to build housing, so…

[Ritewut]

Portlanders do not think this. Survey people in Portland and you'll find they want trains as well. NIMBYs don't and NIMBYs make up the majority of people who actually have the time and wealth to go to city meetings.

[n8cpdx]

I heard people in the kitchen at work whining about the loss of Lloyd center (dead mall) which is set to be replaced by 5,000 housing units.

[hackable_sand]

But you didn't join the conversation, just listened from a distance and made assumptions?

[n8cpdx]

I was busy. What is the assumption I’m accused of making?

[Ritewut]

You assumed they are against density and not just mourning a nostalgic place for them?

[n8cpdx]

If you say you support density but that support withers away at the slightest hint of nostalgia or trade off, or because some old ladies walk in the dead mall sometimes (that was the cited reason), then you don’t really support density.

NIMBYs are usually not against new stuff in their backyard, they really just don’t want to lose the historic parking structures and culturally relevant SFHs already there.

Perhaps you are harboring NIMBY views you refuse to acknowledge and you are feeling defensive? Are you holding onto the corpse of Lloyd center?

[n8cpdx]

You can want trains while simultaneously detesting all of the conditions that make trains viable. Just like you can want to drive to work every day and also want to never be in traffic. NIMBYism has nothing to do with being averse to working downtown or tearing down a mall (a radically YIMBY position regarding dead malls).

[Ritewut]

I don't know many if any YIMBYs who are opposed to density. I know people who are opposed to density being seen as only apartments and condos.

[n8cpdx]

What do you think density means? A mixed use neighborhood of apartments, condos, retail, and office is density.

The only other categories are heavy manufacturing (which is harder to argue for) and single family homes, which are not dense by definition.

[Ritewut]

5,000 units of apartments is not mixed use so unless there is more to the story you're leaving out, this is not mixed use.

[n8cpdx]

5,000 units can also be built alongside entirely too much office space and ground floor retail, which is mixed use.

I’m not sure if you’ve ever been to Portland but the predominant problem is still too much office and retail space (much of it empty) and not enough residential space; every apartment I have lived in and almost every apartment building I walk by day to day has vacant ground floor retail.