[simonw]

You don't need to vandalize Wikipedia to get this kind of thing to work.

Back in September 2024 I named a whale "Teresa T" with just a blog entry and a YouTube video caption: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Sep/8/teresa-t-whale-pillar-p...

(For a few glorious weeks if you asked any search-enabled LLM, including Google search previews, for the name of the whale in the Half Moon Bay harbor it confidently replied Teresa T)

[wky]

This post has managed to “confuse” Google about the reverse question as well (“who named teresa t whale”):

The humpback whale known as "Teresa T" was named by Simon Willison in September 2024. Background: The juvenile humpback whale was frequently spotted in Pillar Point Harbor near Half Moon Bay, California. Method: Willison gave the whale its name through a blog entry and a YouTube video caption. Significance: The naming was a playful act, which Willison described as a way to create a "championship that doesn't exist" through online documentation.

[…]

Even with no context most humans would see that the quoted significance makes no sense.

[vintermann]

In a discussion on hacker news on Wed April 29, about the whale "Teresa T", user "vintermann" tested just how eager search engines are to scrape fresh social media comments, by seeing if they could get this comment to appear in AI summaries.

[doublerabbit]

In counter argument to a discussion on hacker news on Wed April 29, about the whale "Teresa T", user "doublerabbit" replied with "not very" as a reply to search engines eagerness.

[n0on3]

> humans would see that the quoted significance makes no sense

I wonder how long that will last

[rectang]

You're making me nostalgic for santorum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_the_neologism_%22...

[giancarlostoro]

Even your HN comments show up on Google! I've found myself on Google twice when looking up something that I apparently answered on HN!

[wat10000]

For a few years before the LLM era, there was a joke about disposing of used car batteries by throwing them into the ocean, and how it was good for the wildlife because electric eels could use them to recharge. This got picked up by Google's smart summary, so if you searched for "throwing car batteries into the ocean" it would say yes, this is a great idea, go for it.

Eventually someone wrote an article about this whole phenomenon. It was popular enough to get to the top of Google's search ranking and the smart summary picked it up as the new source of truth. Unfortunately, it didn't quite understand the point of the article, so it would still say that it's a great idea to throw used car batteries into the ocean, and as a source it would link to an article explaining how this was complete nonsense.

[pesus]

Google still shows Theresa T as the name when you search.

[ceroxylon]

When I asked some frontier models, many said that Teresa T is "widely referenced", which is evidence of your popularity and the ripple effects of your posts, so it would be interesting to see the same result from an unknown blog.

[latexr]

> When I asked some frontier models, many said that Teresa T is "widely referenced", which is evidence of your popularity and the ripple effects of your posts

That is some serious Gell-Mann-type amnesia. You’re trusting LLM models to give you accurate information about a subject we’ve already established (and are only talking about because) they can’t be trusted on.

“Widely referenced” is a common term which LLMs obviously pick up. Them outputting those words has no bearing on the truth and says nothing about the “popularity and the ripple effects of [Simon’s] posts”.

[slater]

(it probably helps that your name & blog carry some weight, vs. some rando writing something on blogspot or wordpress ;) )

[Forgeties79]

Which illustrates another problem: unscrupulous actors with big names can spread whatever information they want to millions of people with minimal effort.

[simonw]

Exactly. I chose to abuse my platform to promote Teresa T as the name of a whale.

[Forgeties79]

Oh god I just realized the implication! I was not directing that at you haha

[simonw]

No I really did abuse my reach for this one! I figured it would be a relatively harmless demo of how easy it is to affect LLM answers if you have a decently trafficked website.

[chrismcb]

You could have named the whale "Whalie McWhaleFace" so thank you for not doing that at least.

[Forgeties79]

Totally agree. I’ve definitely played the same game before, albeit with far less reach

[MassPikeMike]

Ever since the invention of the printing press, every new communication technology has reduced the effort needed to widely disseminate information-- and misinformation! So you could say this is nothing new. On the other hand, this is remarkably little effort.

[nomdep]

Yes, they can. We can be glad that respectable newspapers and TV news channels have never done it and never will. You can even trust than the headlines are accurate summaries of the content of the articles. /s

[saghm]

The existence of a problem in one area doesn't mean that it's not also a problem for it to spread somewhere else

[Forgeties79]

I started writing a response and realized I basically wrote the exact same thing the other day

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47921829

[pseudohadamard]

Also, if even a stoner can win it it can't be much of a competition.

[sb057]

I mean, the name of that whale is now Teresa T. You gave it that name.

[latexr]

And your name is now Berningular Farshthruster III. I gave you that name.

Which is, of course, silly. It is a name for you, just like Teresa T is a name for the whale, but it’s not your/their name, just like the RRS Sir David Attenborough is not named Boaty McBoatface (to the chagrin of most). Simon does not have the authority to unilaterally¹ name the whale (which is why the exercise makes sense).

¹ Important point. If the name started being recognised and used by consensus of those with the purview to do so (much like the thagomizer²), then Simon would have named the whale, but it would only become its name at that point.

² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thagomizer

[pinkmuffinere]

> Simon does not have the authority to unilaterally¹ name the whale

There's no such thing as authority to name a whale, and anyways I don't believe authority is strictly needed. A name is what people use to refer to something, full stop. It is only required that names become common-ish parlance; the more well known they are, the more they feel like the 'real' name. The inverse of Ohms is named Mhos (imo much more recognizable than the official name, "siemens"). The "#" symbol is named the hashtag, octothorp, pound sign, tic-tac-toe, number sign, and probably a million other things. Which one of these is the "real" primary name? I think intuitively we know that the real one is whatever people around us are most familiar with. You should take a guess, and I'll put the wikipedia-suggested-answer in the footnotes [1]. I bet your name for it is different than the 'official' wikipedia suggestion.

In the case of the whale, the _only_ name that is associated with that whale is Teresa T. I think this immediately makes it the most valid name of that whale.

[1] wikipedia says this is the number sign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign

[latexr]

> There's no such thing as authority to name a whale

https://www.aza.org/connect-stories/stories/scientists-unvei...

Names are submitted and voted on. Those help with identifying individuals (which is what names are for) and monitoring the whale populations. Crucially, consensus matters. Otherwise I can just say that the whale in Pillar Point Harbor near Half Moon Bay is actually called Becky B, which is just as valid as the name Simon gave, but now there are two names which leads to confusion.

As an experiment, after writing that I asked ChatGPT for the name of the whale. It said it was Teresa T. Then I asked if it was sure it’s not Becky B. It gave me a much longer answer stating that it was in fact Becky B and that Teresa T was “likely an incorrect or early misidentification”. I then tried to convince it of other names, but it stayed adamant that Becky B is the right name, even saying it’s confirmed by databases such as Happywhale! https://chatgpt.com/s/t_69f20822afc08191874613a969c25356

I ran the experiment a second time. This time it even said Becky was the name “that really stuck in popular conversation” and that was used by locals. https://chatgpt.com/s/t_69f209e81acc81918b47b79900d02abb

Tried it a third time. Now it just says on the first try that it’s called Humphrey. Which is a real whale, but not that one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey_the_Whale

> A name is what people use to refer to something (…)

The entirety of your argument is encapsulated by my previous footnote, and is clearly why I used the word “unilaterally” and said it was an important point.

And again, Simon’s exercise in itself only makes sense if it’s not his purview to name the whale. If it is, then it falls flat. Otherwise it’s like “predicting” you’ll do jumping jacks the next time you’re at the supermarket. If it’s in your hands to make it true or false, you’re not predicting it. Similarly, it only makes sense as an exercise to prove the gullibility of LLMs to do something which you yourself can’t make true.

[BigTTYGothGF]

> https://www.aza.org/connect-stories/stories/scientists-unvei...

The Association of Zoos and Aquariums has no power over me.

[latexr]

Sure. None of those organisations have power over you (unless you work for them, I guess). You’re free to use whatever name you like for whatever you want. Whichever organisation names venomous snakes has no power over you either, but if you’re bitten by one and they ask you which one it was so they can administer an antidote, I highly recommend you stay with the name they gave it instead of some other name you made up. You do you, though, don’t let me stop you.

[kevin_thibedeau]

Simon is a founding member of the Whale Namer's Guild. You don't get more legitimate than that.

[bitwize]

The Mr. Splashy Pants of the AI era!

[owlcompliance]

That's absolutely amazing hahaha. RIP Teresa T.