[charcircuit]

It's not. Pass a law that continuing to be noisy or disruptive on a bus or train after a warning results in 10 years of prison time with no parole and consistently enforce it. The problem will solve itself without a chicken and egg problem. Problematic people can simply be removed from society to make for a good social environment. Adding more good people is not the only option and in fact only hides the problem instead of solving it.

[JuniperMesos]

This would involve incarcerating a lot of homeless people, which is expensive, and pro-homeless activists would see it as a human rights abuse and fight it.

[charcircuit]

It would be expensive, but would have everyday visible tangible effects which you can't always say about other government spending. In regards to people thinking it's abusing people's rights they will just have to be ignored or taught to respect other people's right to a good experience with public transport.

[9x39]

Deeply unfortunate, but we're arguably in a lose-lose situation where suffering from the problem has abuses, and yet so does fighting those who profit or benefit from the situation.

There's immense social capital and NGO patronage at work surrounding 'homeless' - and I parse that as mentally ill now, as it's an insult (IMO) to the homeless who are perfectly capable of respecting others and participating in the social contract.

[senordevnyc]

I honestly find it horrifying that you think stripping a person of their freedom and dignity for ten years is a reasonable penalty for being “noisy” on a train.

I’d much rather be around the noisy-but-relatively-harmless person than someone with so little regard for their fellow man.

[charcircuit]

>for ten years

Or longer if they show they are unable to reform while in prison.

>penalty for being “noisy” on a train

That is ignoring the second order effects of the situation. This noise is holding back the flywheel of public transportation that could have economic benefits to millions of people. The penalty is for the enormous cost of holding the rest of society back. The person who has such little regard for their fellow man is the one who is letting the few ruin society for the many.

[senordevnyc]

You can make this kind of specious argument for any infraction, no matter how minor. Hard pass on your ridiculous dystopia.

[charcircuit]

Living in a society where you don't have to worry about people stealing, being violent, doing drugs, scamming you, breaking into your car, etc sounds like the opposite of a dystopia.

[senordevnyc]

Yeah, but you mentioned none of those things, instead you suggested a 10+ year sentence is reasonable for people who are too “noisy”. I assume you’d recommend slow torture and then the murder of their entire family if someone dared to actually “do drugs”.

Fortunately, your views are wildly extreme and unconstitutional. Regardless, I hope you find some empathy and some peace out there.

[charcircuit]

Having actual consequences and holding people is all related to solving these problems.

In regards to doing drugs I'd prefer only the death penalty or other equivalent permanent punishment for those have used or distributed them and not the whole family. When we have a war on drugs, murder is not the correct word to use. Drug usage is an extremely fast spreading social virus that needs to be immediately and swiftly snuffed out.

>your views are wildly extreme and unconstitutional

If having properly waited consequences to people's negative actions is considered unconstitutional than I believe the constitution should be changed as it is allowing society to be held back. I see nothing fortunate about allowing people to not have to be responsible for their actions that have negatively impacted society. I hope you too find some empathy.