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by kreelman 53 days ago
Just wondering... What is Intellgience?
11 comments

We have various methods of measuring individual intelligence (which are pretty sketchy imo). But do we have any way to measure or quantify the intelligence of the larger structures that mediate our thought? How do you measure the intelligence of a university, or a business? How much intelligence is contained within a collection of books and papers? To what degree do the tools we use amplify our intelligence?

I see students obsess every day over their SAT scores, which to some is a measure of individual intelligence. But what SAT score would a pair of students working together on a single test get? Or a dozen students working together? Would it be higher or lower? What sort of strategies would maximize their ability to collaborate? What would be the effect of giving/removing access to a calculator on a student's score? Access to scratch paper? Access to textbooks? Access to a dictionary? Access to unlimited time?

If we want to claim to understand intelligence, these are the sort of questions we should be able to answer. Can we?

Not sure if you remember this chess game. 1 man vs 50000. Quite an amazing outcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasparov_versus_the_World

One measure is the ability to find an optimal solution among many options. From solving an integration problem (option = equation, optimal = correct) to life (option = life choice, optimal = best QOL).

Statistically, an LLM finds a better optimal solution than one individual. But LLM solutions are more similar to each other than individuals’, so among many individuals, a few find a better optimal solution than the LLMs.

Hence why I think we need AI that responds more uniquely. Whether that be fine-tuned local models, one LLM that’s more influenced by its prompt and well-supports extremely long prompts, AI tools for humans, or something else. I’d love to see a local AI with continuous learning that generates complex UX to better interact with the user (more than prompts), but that may be far-fetched…

In psychology, there is no definition of intelligence, but it is generally understood as whatever it is that intelligence tests measure.
Substance that can hold State that can allow the substance to produce more of the same state in a dangerous universe full of entropy that wants to remove state-full entities by default - and which is prowled by other state-full entities which predate one another, in such a way that game theory and evolutionary pressure applies.
I don't have a good answer. But I have a good reason to say LLMs are not intelligent.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47918103

If you can’t define it you cannot say where it is present or not.
That is not true. We can detect the presence of a thing by the observation of something it causes. That does not imply we have a good definition of the thing.

At that point, we can only define it as something that causes this observation. And that is not very useful.

We might both agree its a poor definition, but at least it's a poor definition that's observable and neutral. That's useful in regards to this conversation.

Where as the other answer is simply "I can't say, but it's not [this]" and that isn't useful at all. It's simply opinion, which is literally the worst definition around. Personally, I don't define intelligence as "whatever qsera acknowledges as intelligence with no qualifying context"...

I think it is useless as a definition, so not even a poor one.

But here you go, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47918103

I have a two year old that can't count. She can definitely walk around, talk, eat, and do all sorts of other things that I would argue indicate some form of intelligence.

Same for my dog.

Same for entire cultures, including adult humans (anumeric cultures).

Arguably, they're constantly doing calculus, because they can walk, throw, catch, etc - but none of them can count.

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That said, to the point of my original comment - forcing a definition was absolutely useful, because it allows a more detailed and interesting conversation than "qsera doesn't believe an LLM is intelligent".

I agree that one is a poor definition, though. I also don't really think it rules out LLMs.

yeah! Just like gravity, which we all know is, uh, umm, uh, hold on a second,

Wait, I meant light, yeah, photons! It's photons all the way down! And what are photons you ask? shit, no more questions. Got to go.

Gravity has a definition, nice try.
The titel has a typo as the actual article has the title "The Social Edge of Intelligence".
I've corrected the typo now, but I almost let it stand as a testament to my humanity.
Yea no worries, just wanted others to know since when I typed the comment, the submission was quite fresh. It was my hope that it would make less people confused.

I didn't mind that there was a typo.

I assume most readers could decipher that typo, but I recognize your need to be pedantically correct as part of the grand tradition of HN.
The definition I give to my children: It is the ability to make good decisions.
That is a very reasonable definition, but having grown up playing Dungeons & Dragons, making good decisions strikes me as Wisdom, not Intelligence.

Very "intelligent" people can use those smarts to justify or rationalize all kinds of crazy stupid decisions.

An ambiguous metric that's been (ab)used quite a lot by human fundamentalists to try to draw a line between what we can do and what machines can do, in order to feel better about themselves.

Or were you looking for a different definition?

If you gotta ask, you can't afford it.

~ intelligence

Successful selfishness. The ability to make executable plans to tilt the future in your favor.
No consensus but a decent definition is: Ability to utilize resources to achieve outcomes
Like kicking a ball to win a soccer match?
Yes, kicking a ball in the right way does require intelligence.
That sounds more like competency, not intelligence, which funnily enough is only loosely correlated to intelligence.