[alister]

In Brazil, people get so much SMS spam and phone call spam that many people turn off notifications for all text messages and phone calls and use only Whatsapp (even for voice calls).

But once in a while my iPhone in Brazil will get spam as a unblockable "system message". I'm not sure if I'm using the correct term. I'm mean that it looks just like an Apple system notification and it disappears without a trace afterward, but the content is obviously spam.

I wonder how they are able to do this.

[ninkendo]

I wonder if the cell carriers are seeing this as the existential threat it is, or if they’re just continuing with the whole “bury our heads in the sand” strategy.

If having a phone number has no benefit and only brings spam, and WiFi is ubiquitous in urban areas, a huge chunk of the population don’t really need cell plans any more. And the places without WiFi coverage (less dense areas) are the most expensive to provide service.

In the US at least, the FCC used to be pushing hard to combat the spam, like requiring authentication for caller ID, and it was the carriers that were dragging their feet and lobbying against it. So something tells me they just continue to view all the spam senders as an easy income source and don’t mind letting their whole business model die if it means short term profits.

[bluGill]

Most places with wifi around me don't offer great options. My local school blocks a lot (and I'm mostly there outside of school hours, they block more) - these are mostly places I wouldn't go anyway, but once in a while I hit something blocked. My office does the same - but they don't have public WiFi, an employee needs to get you a login (this is easy to do, but if you don't know someone who works in the building you can't connect at all). Most public wiki (including school above) also requires you accept a terms of use. Most devices won't automatically connect to any found open access point, so to use public WiFi I need to manually do everything.

That is I don't think people will use WiFi only, unless they are going to drop always reachable communication. (which given the SPAM OP mentioned maybe...)

[pocksuppet]

You still need a phone number to use apps like WhatsApp. The provider gets all of the same money, but without having to provide a service.

[ronsor]

> unblockable "system message"

This is a "flash SMS" message: https://nickvsnetworking.com/flash-sms-messages/

[kotaKat]

The nice thing on iOS at least is that they make it known it's a flash message. You'll get a full screen modal dialogue including a "Why did I get this message?" link that informs you about it and also informs you that sometimes they're used for scams.

https://i.imgur.com/lrSrm0n.jpeg

Android just gives you a generic popup that says "Class 0 message" in my testing.

[compounding_it]

>use only Whatsapp

WhatsApp here in India has so much spam now. With ads, I am starting to think these spam are just ads sold by WhatsApp.

[apt-apt-apt-apt]

In USA, I personally get 3-5 spam phone calls and voicemails daily. Mostly all the same, like "your $20K loan is almost ready".

One time, I picked up, and it was this seemingly incredibly rude person who sounded real but continue talking in a pushy manner without stopping despite what I said.

It's insane getting so many calls all the time like I owe them a bunch of money or something. Anyone else get this?

[lxgr]

This matches my experience.

The US seems to have completely given up on protecting its public phone network against abuse, while at the same time relying on phone numbers as the primary identifying key and authentication method for humans in countless business processes.

It took years (if not decades) of regulatory neglect to get that bad; I doubt there’s an easy fix at this point. It’s really concerning.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

I suspect that the main reason is that politicians rely on the same mechanisms as robocallers and spammers, so they don't want to restrict it.

Sometimes, I get robocalls from local PACs, and they get automatically flagged as scams, because the dialer companies that the politicians use, are ones that also run outright scam campaigns, and get blacklisted.

[lxgr]

> they get automatically flagged as scams, because the dialer companies that the politicians use

If it were possible to reliably determine the source of a call in the US phone network, spam wouldn't be an issue!

Theoretically, STIR/SHAKEN should enable that; practically, there are too many gaps to enforce it (importantly, it does not travel across TDM, i.e. non-VoIP, paths), so spammers still get away with it.

[tim333]

It's not a prefect system but I don't use a landline and set unknown incoming numbers to silent unless I'm actually expecting a call. Someone important trying to call can always leave a message but the spammers never have.

[devilbunny]

> Someone important trying to call can always leave a message

Curiously, it seems to have become a cultural touchstone not to leave a voicemail. I have had to educate people about this. My service is with Verizon, and for what I assume are historical reasons the caller will hear rings on their end even if my phone isn't receiving the call (AT&T does not have this issue). If you don't leave a voicemail, I literally have no way of knowing that you called. Said voicemail can be as simple as "call me".

I'm a physician, and the hospital where I do most of my work has a policy against sending PHI over text (a very reasonable policy). So many nurses are reluctant to text me anything, even when it's just "please call Adam on 3 South".

[lxgr]

If people need to stop notifications for incoming calls/messages, I'd call that dysfunctional, not just suboptimal.

And what's worse is that even if this were to be fixed now, the reputational damage is already done, since many people will probably never change their devices back to ringing again.

> Someone important trying to call can always leave a message but the spammers never have.

My US mailbox is full of spam calls.

[goodcanadian]

I haven't lived in the US for a long time so this may no longer be true, but when I did live there, putting my number on the do not call register actually helped a lot.

[rationalist]

Doesn't seem to work for me.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

That once worked.

Nowadays...not so much.

[bluGill]

Weird, I get spam about 6 times per year. I've been on the do not call registry for years. My provider also made a bunch of anti-spam changes a while ago (at least a year) which stopped nearly all the remaining spam. To me is seems like this problem is solved.

[apt-apt-apt-apt]

Hm, I'm on a 2nd-party, not 1st-party, carrier like ATT/T-Mobile, maybe my provider lacks this protection.

[nomel]

One of the scams is to use AI to clone your voice, then call a relative to ask for money [1].

I used to answer and mess with the callers, but no longer do.

[1] https://www.mcafee.com/ai/news/ai-voice-scam/

[e40]

I got 3 calls purportedly from hubspot in the last week, from 3 different caller ids. It wasn’t a robocall, the same voice. I just hung up the first two times and the third asked him to stop calling. Incredible. I only answered the calls because I was expecting a call from an unknown number.

[anilakar]

> that it looks just like an Apple system notification and it disappears without a trace afterward

Probably so-called SMS flash messages. They're shown as overlay popups on Android too.

[ExpertAdvisor01]

Probably they use flash sms(class 0 messages)

[ThePowerOfFuet]

Those "system messages" are class zero SMS, also known as flash SMS.

[SwtCyber]

How many telecom features were designed in a more trusted era

[ThePowerOfFuet]

All of them.