[2Gkashmiri]

I have been trying to ask people this but its havent gotten a satisfactory answer.

Sure alcohol is ingrained in society, sure Americans tried prohibition and all that but its not gloom and doom. Muslims who are about 2 billion choose not to consume alcohol and go about their lives without it.

They just do fine without it. How does that work for them? ?

I mean I have never consumed and never will so why is it that your society finds it acceptable?

Isnt tobabbo going down in consumption because it is being taxed shit out of?

Why can't you voluntarily try to influence your alcohol consumption by paying a "alcohol tax"?

There are benefits of not consuming alcohol, there are problems associated with alcohol, and people who try to convince alcohol is good for you are generally lying to themselves.

[defrost]

These aren't great "well formed" questions, maybe work on sharpening them up.

> I mean I have never consumed and never will so why is it that your society finds it acceptable?

Well, there are many societies across the planet and as a general rule their behaviours and norms are not predicated upon your personal choices and decisions.

eg: Australian society is largely indifferent to the fact that my father, a decorated service veteran, is and has been a lifelong teetotaller for 90 years.

> Isn't tobacco usage going down in consumption because it is being taxed shit out of?

Yes / no / not really - it's more complex than that. The Australian experience is that public health education policy promoting health, the downsides of tobacco, and requiring cigarette packs to display graphic images of diseased organs coupled with increased tobacco consumption taxes worked together to reduce tobacco use ... But ..

eventually, as tobacco taxes continued to increase (probably a bad idea IMHO) the incentives for criminal sidestepping and black market tobacco increased and Australia now has a new class of criminals that are considerably more violent than before. Hand in hand with that vaping has somehow sidestepped being associated with ciggies, and younger people are back to seeing these 'forbidden' things as desirable.

> Why can't you voluntarily try to influence your alcohol consumption by paying a "alcohol tax"?

Assuming by "you" you mean a country influencing it's population, I guess?

There are alcohol taxes in many countries, also penalties for drink driving, business restrictions on being drunk at work, etc.

Australians as a whole consume less alcohol than many non Australians imagine - sure there are people that drink a lot, but not as many (per capita) as once were, nor as much volume wise per person as they used to, and they do enjoy playing up myths about Australia.

[TFNA]

The Muslim world has plenty of alcohol drinking. On one hand you have countries that are majority Muslim but alcohol is legally sold and widely consumed, like the Balkans, Central Asia or parts of West Africa. On the other hand you have countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran where illegal homebrewing and distribution (of often very foul stuff) is rife but society does a very good job of keeping it under wraps.

[jeremyjh]

A lot of states do tax alcohol. Alcohol is dropping in popularity, but I think that is mostly due to legalized Marijuana and THC. Actually, there are more DUI for THC now than Alcohol.

People have been drinking for thousands of years, and all that time there have been people who think its a bad idea.

For me personally I can't drink successfully, so I quit entirely about 17 years ago. The only thing I really miss is the occasional drink with co-workers, especially at long dinners. A long dinner at a restaurant - sober - with co-workers who are all drinking is a special kind of hell.

[adgjlsfhk1]

note that many (most?) THC DUIs have very little evidence. thc stays in your system for at least a month, so it's very hard to tell how many of these are actual DUIs vs cops deciding to pull over a (usually black) person and make up some signs to justify an arrest+drug test

[defrost]

> so it's very hard to tell how many of these are actual DUIs vs cops deciding to pull over a (usually black)

It's easier if you look at (say) Australian road traffic enforcement statistics; they have different rules than the US, have the "right" to check for DUI without having to make up a reason, and operate by funnelled road blocks that check everybody (or every second car, etc, depending on flow rates and breath check speeds).

They also 'verify' in the sense that any driver can challenge and get a "better than road side" test back at the station under supervision (blood tests with saved samples for court challenges, etc).

[esseph]

> They also 'verify' in the sense that any driver can challenge and get a "better than road side" test back at the station under supervision (blood tests with saved samples for court challenges, etc).

Blood tests can not determine THC intoxication.

[defrost]

I'm not seeing the part where I said that.

DUI (in Australia) refers to "Driving under influence" and focuses on threshold detection rather than degree of impairment (although relying upon other studies that allege to correlate the two).

In the case of drug impairment, "better than roadside swabs" evidence for court challenges includes samples of urine, breath, hair, saliva or sweat.

Blood samples, rather than breath tests, are typically for alcohol.

Independent of roadside pass / fail on swabs for drug / alcohol levels Australian RTA can still ask drivers to complete an impairment test; assessing balance, coordination, and overall behaviour.

On challenge, this is something that can also be further assessed for court evidence; eg: are their perceptions of impairment because (various) medical conditions that cause slurred words, etc.

[mckn1ght]

> I have been trying to ask people this but its havent gotten a satisfactory answer. > I mean I have never consumed and never will so why is it that your society finds it acceptable?

I’m not sure it will be possible for you to receive an answer that would satisfy, given that latter statement.

I’ll say as someone that rarely drinks for the past 15 years that I enjoy two things about it: the flavor (I like beers, wine, scotch, bourbon, gin, tequila and various liqueurs) and the sense of profundity you get when slightly inebriated: conversations with friends, live music, many things become enhanced.

Of course it’s only an altered state of perception but all of life is perception, so it’s no less real than any other mental state.

However it comes with a lot of downsides and many people get taken in way too far by it, to the point that what little enjoyment it might have given them at one time is long gone.

I simply couldn’t deal with the slightest hangover any more, I’d have things I’d want to do after getting home from a party or dinner with wine, or the next morning, and wanted a clear head. So I stopped.

Now, on the rare occasion I want a beer, about 50% of the time it’s a nonalcoholic one, which still has a small amount of alcohol, and I still feel slightly inebriated. Or if I have a real beer and want another to sip on, I’ll follow it up with nonalcoholic ones.

[sometimes_all]

> sure Americans tried prohibition and all that but its not gloom and doom

> Why can't you voluntarily try to influence your alcohol consumption by paying a "alcohol tax"?

Gujarat in India is a dry state. UP has an alcohol tax of 69%. Hasn't stopped people at all, in fact such rules have backfired - loopholes, alcohol tourism, illicit production causing all sorts of havoc.

> I mean I have never consumed and never will so why is it that your society finds it acceptable?

Neither have I. But the problem lies exactly where you're heading. I've had a ton more pressure to drink in India where teetotalism is considered ideal, than in the western world where drinking is considered a lot more acceptable. Funnily enough, the more "taboo" or "socially less acceptable" something is, the more the people who partake also force you to do it.

[boyter]

Many Muslims drink anyway. A lot of those in Iran brew wine/beer in their house.

Tobacco in Australia has been taxed to the point we have a huge black market for it now. You would have thought people would have learnt from prohibition.

You cannot police morals.

[hattmall]

Is it really fair to say that Muslim society is "doing just fine?"

Like what amount of reasonable people from a moderately developed non-muslim country would ever want to live in a Muslim country?

Are people that come to western nations from Muslim countries able to succeed and function as well as people from other, even worse off countries?

Wikipedia offers a list of counties by alcohol consumption. Given the opportunity to roll the dice for a new home would you rather the list of choices be made from the Top 50 or the Bottom 50?

[tejohnso]

We pay extra tax on alcohol. It doesn't matter. People pay it and consume. Same with gasoline. Doesn't seem to matter how expensive it gets. Rate of complaining goes up, but road trips continue.

Alcohol is especially harmful for some people, but for others it almost always leads to a more enjoyable experience. I don't think those people would try to say it's good for them but they will say they like it, it's important to their social life, and it's no worse than junk food.

[juggina]

>Muslims ... choose not to consume alcohol

Muslims drink like camels. Many Christian denominations don't drink either (I had never been anywhere near an alcoholic drink until adulthood!) but there are always going to be plenty of people in the congregation who quietly partake in a few drinks at home.