[tastyfreeze]

It is my hope that humans can ditch their love affair with pesticides. This is just one example of the unintended impact of pesticides.

I have also found dying birds in my yard a few days after the neighbor sprayed their house perimeter for ants. No toxicology report but there was no sign of any physical damage.

[gravelc]

Pesticides form the backbone of crop protection. Without them, we're looking at at least a 40% reduction in global yield, and much greater uncertainty in food supply chains (the oil shocks show how bad that can be). Pesticides per se are not the problem; synthetic broad-spectrum pesticides with many unintended effects are. They're often toxic to people and ecosystems, and resistance among pests and pathogens is increasing anyway, so their days are numbered to a degree. Biopesticides, which are generally safer and much more sustainable, offer a real solution to at least the safety issue.

I work on RNAi-based biopesticides (sprayed dsRNA) - non-GM, doesn't impact beneficial species, doesn't hang around in the environment, etc. Already ubiquitous in nature (and part of our diet). Peptide-based biopesticides are another approach that is going well. Both approaches are now commercialised by smaller players (e.g. for varroa mite control in bee hives by GreenLight), and not by the Bayer, Syngenta types.

[stinos]

Pesticides form the backbone of crop protection. Without them, we're looking at at least a 40% reduction in global yield

Such numbers might be ballpark correct, but I think the "without them" here literally means "if we take current industrial agriculture and simply drop pesticides" i.e. without any other change. Pretty obvious that yes, doing so will easily get you to numbers of that magnitude.

So it's a bit strange not considering the various root causes of what requires those pesticieds in the first place: monocultures on dead soil and nothing which even begins to resemble a normal ecosystem in sight. Those causes happen to be exactly among the causes of the massive insect/more general biodiversity decline we're witnessing. Along with pesticides, sure, but habitat loss is likely an even bigger factor.

So while those biopesticides are probably a net win over what is used now, it's rather unclear if they'll have a meaningful impact on that decline. Which is why reports on solutions for the decline also always include adressing at least part of the root causes, like partial shifts back to landscapes which are a mix of nature and agriculture. Where there's at least a bush/tree line between fields, for instance. Which also helps keeping certain pests in control.

[ninininino]

We throw away half of our food and waste it. If humans had less agricultural yield due to decrease in use of pesticides, we'd start to be more efficient with what we grow, and choose agricultural crops that are more efficient for generating calories and micronutrients per acre and per precipitation/sunlight/whatever.

We send rockets to the moon and every person is getting phones. We would survive without pesticides.

[culi]

Without them we would simply farm differently. Polyculture has now been thoroughly scientifically validated for its capabilities of dramatically reducing reliance on pesticides. It's not a fringe theory any more and we need to transition yesterday

[sawjet]

When you say it's part of our diet, does that mean it's safe to consume?

[baranul]

That's the problem. It appears companies are allowed to use consumers as guinea pigs for substances with unknown or possibly bad outcomes. All this "stuff" should be on warning labels.

If these substances slowly cause cancer (making it harder to trace) or other health problems, like birth defects or fertility problems, it can take a generation to figure out. The money has long been took and the getaway car long gone. Just lots of damaged and sick people wondering what happened, who will likely not even get a "sorry".

[nomel]

I had a salesman come to our place saying that a neighbor had spiders, so their whole backyard was treated! I laughed and shut the door.

[groovy2shoes]

i had a salesman say he noticed i had a lot of spiders around outside. he asked who i currently use for pest control. i said, "the spiders." he excused himself and left.

maybe they don't make great decorations, but the spiders generally stay in their webs and don't bother me. i once watched one defeat a wasp twice its size. i might feel differently if we had any dangerous spiders around here (just black widows, and they stay in dark hidey holes), but i'm happy to trade a little space for their services.

[crispinb]

> maybe they don't make great decorations

Some of ours are decorative enough, eg this orb weaver I exchange greetings with most mornings: https://www.pasteboard.co/07o5TWpFLUY8.png

[culi]

Truly gorgeous, thanks for sharing.

Whenever I see a spider indoors I try to remind myself that for every spider I see I am probably seeing 10 less of other bugs. And if the spider is unsuccessful in catching other bugs it will leave on its own

[SOLAR_FIELDS]

Indeed I live somewhere that has both black widow and brown recluse and they are about the only two spiders I will actually exterminate. Even the fast scary hunter and wolf spiders get a pass

[porknubbins]

This was my about reaction when I was renting a house and a guy was going door to door to get people to sign up for yard bug spraying. Wait the bugs are already outside and you want to kill them? That’s where they live.

[aaronbrethorst]

Was this in the PNW? The idea of getting rid of spiders. Oof, what a joke.

[downboots]

We'll hopefully look back at these like we now see asbestos. All our scientific advancement doesn't automatically cure myopia. https://www.sciencehistory.org/stories/disappearing-pod/how-...

[Intralexical]

Asbestos... Lead, CFCs, mercury, cadmium, radium, petroleum, DDT, BPA, microplastics, PFAS, organophosphates, pyrethrins... The more wonder materials turn out to be devastating for human health or environmental stability, the more I think maybe the "no (synthetic) chemicals" crowd have a point.

Or rather, that maybe we're learning the wrong lesson each time. Maybe instead of "asbestos is bad" or "DDT is bad", the real lesson should have been "biological and ecological systems are incredibly fragile outside of the exact combination of environmental conditions and chemical inputs they've specifically evolved to handle".

Too much complexity, too many delicate mechanisms and feedback loops. Can't afford to keep playing whack-a-mole, every generation we replace the old poisons and add some new ones. If we keep introducing new molecules and quantities of substances that evolution hasn't had a chance to adapt to, then we shouldn't be surprised that we keep breaking things.

But let's not pretend we don't use pesticides for a reason. People gotta eat, and pyrethrins are already an improvement AFAIU, less toxic to mammals, similar to molecules that exist in nature. But still, a cudgel. Maybe we need to take ecological engineering seriously, control pest species by simultaneously cultivating stable ecosystems of insectivores/predators and hyperparasites, poison spray not required...

[ceejayoz]

We had a really bad year of mosquitos and got one of the spraying services in.

An hour later, monarch having a seizure on our porch. Oops. Never again.

[_heimdall]

Yep, its clever how well chemical companies have sold us general poisons as being highly specific to certain plants/insects/animals.

That's not to say something can't work better on one particular type of biotic, but its still harmful to the others as well.

[NewJazz]

Mosquito dunks and clear standing or pooling water.

[acdha]

This stopped working in the mid-Atlantic when invasive tiger mosquitoes arrived. They need like a bottle cap sized amount of water so even things like a flower can hold enough water for them to reproduce.

We’re using scented lures which have the right salt + lipid combo to attract mosquitoes. It helps but I still wish Nathan Myrvold had seriously developed that “photonic fence” product.

[cevn]

I think the next best thing is an automatic turret that fires salt bullets or something, maybe AI. Hopefully it doesn't take an eye out, but if it took out like 1million mosquitoes for 1 eye, worth it?

[NewJazz]

I think you would run out of eyes before running out of mosquitos.

[cevn]

Fuck it, everyone wear safety goggles outside and try not to make any jerky movements.

[aaronbrethorst]

I guess he was busy photographing hamburgers or hanging out with criminals.

[ceejayoz]

There’s a swamp near us and a bunch of neighbors.

[hedora]

The only things that work around here are the thermacell repellents (they have a little butane fire that evaporates stuff off a mesh pad). Their effect seems pretty localized in time and space, but I wonder what's in them, and how problematic it is.

[jillesvangurp]

A few countries in the EU have been encouraging people to fix their gardens. Remove some tiles, use native/local seeds for weeds and wild flowers and let nature do its things. That seems to work. Local insect counts are going up where that happens. Even simple things like mowing strips of grass next to the roads less often seems to help. And it's actually cheaper to not mow that so often. So, win win. They'll clear it maybe a few times per year as needed.

There have been some anecdotal reports of people having to clean their car windscreens a bit more often. That's a good thing. It means more bugs are flying around. Insect counts go up, counts of anything that eats those goes up as well.

Reducing the use of pesticides is a good idea as well. If only because modern farming still depends on pesticides and pollinator populations collapsing seems to be correlated with the use of pesticides. No pollinators, no fruit/vegetables. It's in their own interest to do something about populations collapsing. Allocating some of their land for pollinator friendly vegetation would also be smart.

A lot of over the counter toxins should be banned and in EU the use and sale of those is already restricted. Even rat poison is banned in some places now. Unfortunately, farmers seem to have successfully lobbied for being able to continue to use some pesticides. But it seems that awareness of the issue is growing; including of the health effects of living close to a farm that uses pesticides. It's likely that more restrictions will come eventually.

[micromacrofoot]

it is not love, we need to make it unprofitable

homeowners have nothing on farms, acres and acres of pesticides and monocultures

[fooqux]

> we need to make it unprofitable

Hard to do that when the very thing you're fighting against drastically lowers the cost of the product.

No, this is what regulation and laws are for. Too bad science and the like seem to be on the way out currently. :/

[micromacrofoot]

yeah exactly, it can be done but it's harder and more expensive (though likely not as expensive as meat industry subsidies)

[Self-Perfection]

I suppose we do not even know exact reasons of decline of wildlife population. Quite definitely it is due massive intervention of human activity, but which aspects exactly? Light pollution might play big role in insect population decline.

[throwaway27448]

Zero chance. There is too much to be made by killing everything to love about life for us not to do it