[rowanG077]

I agree it would be much better if online culture improved, and I don’t think anyone would argue against that. The difficulty is that change at that scale tends to be slow and unpredictable, on the order of decades, so you can't rely on it in the short term.

Because of that I think there’s value in focusing on what individuals can control, like setting boundaries, disengaging when things get overwhelming, or stepping away from spaces that become unhealthy.

That doesn’t mean the behavior is acceptable, or that people should just tolerate it. It’s more about acknowledging that, while broader change is important, taking steps to protect yourself is the only immediate and reliable option.

[applfanboysbgon]

> The belief that this will happen is also a malicious fairy tale to tell to people.

Cultural change is possible. It is not something that will happen, no. But it is something that can happen, if enough people choose to make it happen. Making it happen starts by pointing this out and not blaming the people on the wrong end of this behaviour.

This kind of thinking reminds me of my truly most loathed thought-terminating cliche of all time, "life's not fair", as a justification for supporting some horribly unfair status quo. True, life isn't fair, but humanity has collectively spent an unbelievable amount of effort doing all kinds of things to make it slightly more fair, one step at a time. We can make it more fair. That's what we do as humans. We bend the world to our collective will.

---

seems the comment I was responding to was completely rewritten while I was writing this. oh well.

[rowanG077]

You are derailing this discussion by keep moving it to: "This is what the world should be like", and no one is disagreeing with that here. This is not what anything I said is about.

[applfanboysbgon]

> and no is disagreeing with that here. no one.

The very first comment I replied to was insulting the victim's social skills and mental stability. This is the exact opposite of what is needed to reach "what the world should be like". Positive progress is not inevitable. It does not happen by some fate of the universe, where if we just wait things will naturally improve and life will get better. When positive progress does happen, it happens by humans consciously choosing to act in ways that make the world a better place rather than in ways that do not.

[AussieWog93]

>The very first comment I replied to was insulting the victim's social skills and mental stability.

Dude, the very first comment you responded to was itself a response to someone who suggested that the frankly unhinged HN "ban" was a decision that was "not taken lightly".

They literally stuck a comment into the site banner suggesting that HN comments critical of Asahi or their devs was part of a Kiwi Farms targeted harassment campaign trying to take advantage of HN's SEO.

I don't know why you're continually upholding this fantasy, referring to marcan as a "victim", or pretending that somehow the problems of the world would all magically be solved if everyone only said positive things about other people all the time (communities like this 100% dysfunctional), but it's fucking strange and naive.

[applfanboysbgon]

> that the frankly unhinged HN "ban"

It was not a ban or anything that could even possibly be misconstrued as one. People are talking about an overreaction, but the real overreaction is here on HN. This had literally nothing to do with the topic of Asahi Linux's progress report, but somebody intentionally dredged up a year-old subject with an outright deceptive and extremely hyperbolic framing for the sole purpose of shitstirring.

> pretending that somehow the problems of the world would all magically be solved if everyone only said positive things about other people all the time (communities like this 100% dysfunctional)

This is not even remotely what I said. The issue at hand is people mobbing to personally attack and harass individuals. Earnest criticism is one thing, but there is absolutely nothing constructive or productive being accomplished by the way people are behaving on this subject.

[AussieWog93]

> It was not a ban or anything that could even possibly be misconstrued as one.

That is correct. It was just a rant, really, and even then not even a long one.

> This is not even remotely what I said.

Can you clarify what you're trying to say, then? AFAIK nobody on HN is harassing marcan, Byuu, the Asahi devs or anyone else in that sort of vauge circle. We're making comments about how they might behave or present themselves publicly, and some of the comments are definitely negative - but there is no coordination or intent to belittle or anything of that sort. Just internet bitching.

(and I am open to counterexamples if you're happy to share - have people been emailing marcan personally to say "I'm from HN and you're a piece of shit"? I wouldn't be surprised if people on Kiwi Farms were doing some of that.)