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by greg_dc 51 days ago
In fairness, is this any worse than what Palantir will do with the whole countries NHS records? And they're being paid by the government to do it!
6 comments

> In fairness, is this any worse than what Palantir will do with the whole countries NHS records?

I don’t get this trend of seeing bad thing happen and then commenting that other bad thing exists and therefore “in fairness” we should downplay it.

Bad things are bad. Comparing them to other things we don’t like doesn’t make them less bad. I don’t like Palantir either but they’re not intentionally leaking health details so this comparison doesn’t even make any sense.

> they’re not intentionally leaking health details

To many, they are. They're leaking information that has been trusted to the NHS to their own databases.

The fact that it's being done under government contract and (arguably) within the law shouldn't immediately make it any less bad.

> The fact that it's being done under government contract and (arguably) within the law shouldn't immediately make it any less bad.

Of course it should, to say otherwise is absurd

what, the NHS shouldn't have _any_ subcontracting? All data must only be held by sacred NHS monks in a vault somewhere?

As long as palentir are holding the data on UK servers, to modern data security standards, and they have a contract to do so, they should be able to

no, they should not, since we already know that the contract won't stop them from using that data for other purposes and other governments. A government should act in the interest of its own citizens, first and foremost, and not pretending to believe a pinky swear by a notoriously bad actor.
Why do you trust the UK government won’t do the same?
That's a catch 22, I mean they literally are using the contractor... So yeah, they're effectively doing it.

The point was that they shouldn't use contractors and keep their citizens data private. Whenever they don't do that... that's an issue. Hence the critique.

That was the norm for some time, it's just being eroded over the years and is basically entirely gone at this point

Not just in the UK for that matter...

Why subcontract with public money to a private for-profit enterprise whose main goal is not the public good?
Is allowing random malicious actors to buy health data worse than allowing NHS's own employees to interact with that data productively?

yes

Palantir may not be random but it's certainly a malicious actor
"certainly" is doing a lot of work here. I'm not "certain".

In fact the people I have spoken to who have worked on Palantir platform were deeply suspicious of their users treating data with respect, and so built security and immutable auditability as foundational tech.

Killing hundreds of children in Iran is certain.
The NHS does it so badly that they brought in Palantir.
... which provides software to help NHS personnel utilize their own data...
Yeah. The data vacuum whose CEO loves to talk about how effectively their software helps the US government kill people is exactly who should have unfettered access to extremely intimate details of many people’s existence, without their permission.
Good data infrastructure can be used for all sorts of things

If anything, the fact the US IC, DOD, NIH, and NHS trust the software with such sensitive and operationally critical data is positive signal

Do you believe these customers don't audit systems/processes that they put their data into?

Do you believe the organization that whoops-leaked 500k people’s intimate health data is capable of auditing any complex technical system? Are you asserting that Palantir is no different than any other infrastructure company? Do you think that my criticism would ever apply to the US IC or the DoD? Do you think there’s any way I would approve of the NHS or NIH using Palantir based on my earlier statements? Is there a reason you’re peppering me with tangential rhetorical questions sort of poking around the premise of what I said like a lawyer from palantir talking a deposition while glibly dismissing what I actually said? Dispensing with the rhetorical questions, let’s get concrete: do you have a Palantir logo Coffee Mug? Pajamas? … briefs?
> Do you believe these customers don't audit systems/processes that they put their data into?

They are not an intelligent buyer when it comes to tech.

Yes, by Palantir setting it all up and providing reports etc for clinical staff and bureaucrats.
“In fairness, this pot of water was already uncomfortably hot before [latest development] raised the temperature another few degrees closer to boiling.”

…says a happy frog who will be as cooked as everyone else.

Well, one is a thing that has happened, and one is a thing that hasn't happened.
Palantir develops database software.
… As part of an explicit, openly stated mission to reshape the global political order.

Palantir is indeed in many ways just a software vendor but we shouldn’t downplay that they have a much more explicit agenda than most other companies do in seeking government contracts.

Eh. I mean, the government will do what the government will do with the software it buys. We've just seen that with Anthropic. The US government wouldn't give contracts to Palantir if it seemed like its ideology didn't line up with US aims, and they wouldn't give contracts to other vendors if it seemed like their less ideological marketing meant they weren't aligned with US aims.
1) we’re talking about a UK government contract with Palantir

2) actually historically, and aspirationally, the US government isn’t supposed to be focused on ideological alignment of its vendors - the current government is anomalous and we shouldn’t normalize this.

“Palantir is here to disrupt and make the institutions we partner with the very best in the world and, when it’s necessary, to scare enemies and on occasion kill them,” Karp said, with a smile on his face. The CEO added that he was very proud of the work his firm is doing and that he felt it was good for America. “I’m very happy to have you along for the journey,” he said. “We are crushing it. We are dedicating our company to the service of the West, and the United States of America, and we’re super-proud of the role we play, especially in places we can’t talk about.” [1]

[1] https://gizmodo.com/palantirs-billionaire-ceo-just-cant-stop...

Yes, that’s a bunch of bluster about database software.
No, Palantir is not a "database vendor", it's an intelligence company closely working with IOF in their ongoing genocidal efforts and with DHS with mass deportations.

I'd rather see Oracle than a ghoul openly supporting targeting civilians.

Doesn't Oracle (or at least Larry Ellison) openly support extermination of civilians too?
Not ordinarily, at least not anymore. They cancelled Project Beanstalk in the late 2010s, now relying on the legal system to extract perceived debts.
Never to that extent FWIR but I see your point. Yeah, Oracle is bad too.
Both are bad