[rahimnathwani]

My point was not whether $35/year per person on books is a lot or a little. I was responding to a comment where someone suggested libraries were a way to avoid high book prices. But they're not!

Libraries themselves (and by extension, taxpayers) suffer from high book prices.

Separately, would you mind explaining this part, as I'm not familiar with university libraries: "Even most university libraries are switching to digital collections which can't be loaned out."

Does this mean you can only read the digital collections when physically present in the library, or that they're only available to members and not via inter-library loan?

A few years ago I suggested a book via this form: https://sfpl.org/services/ask-librarian/suggest-title I never received any response.

I've since (very recently) learned there's another way to suggest titles here: https://sfpl.bibliocommons.com/user_dashboard#overlay456

Just now, I went to suggest a book there and got a popup message saying they won't get that book because it's over 10 years old. It's a book about critical thinking. It doesn't need to be updated.

[toast0]

> I was responding to a comment where someone suggested libraries were a way to avoid high book prices. But they're not!

Most of the books I've bought got read by me, and then sit on a shelf forever. If a book is bought by a library, and used multiple times before it's weeded, that's a big win for $/read.

> Just now, I went to suggest a book there and got a popup message saying they won't get that book because it's over 10 years old. It's a book about critical thinking. It doesn't need to be updated.

I think the library is suggesting a 10 year old book might be better accessed through other means. Can you get it from interlibrary loan? Is it available on the used market? It may not be available through the library's usual sourcing, etc.

[rahimnathwani]

Why would the age of the book matter? If it were from a big publisher and they were to publish a new substantially-unchanged edition every three years, why would that make the library willing to consider the book?

The book in question is still in print and still available new.

[toast0]

If nobody wanted it in the first 10 years it was available, chances are it's only going to get one circulation if they buy it for you. That's not a great use of the libraries purchase budget or shelf space budget.

If they had a copy that wore out and it was circulated many times, they would have reordered it when they discarded it.

[so-cal-schemer]

That's why it's great that SFPL purchases such a wide variety of books. You can't ILL something if nobody has it.

When I was a teen I got my local library to acquire copies of a number of tech classics:

SICP, K&R, Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated, ANSI CL, ... all discarded to my everlasting disappointment.

[so-cal-schemer]

Books like these approach $100 new. That's a lot of money for someone in high school.

[rahimnathwani]

SFPL doesn't have even one copy of SICP.

And I can't request a copy because it's too old.

[so-cal-schemer]

I can't remember the number of times and ways I've tried to get them to re-acquire it. Maybe we should organize a good old sit-in?

https://mtpfriends.bigcartel.com/product/what-s-more-punk-ad...

Some universities have it, but the only copy in CA public libraries seems to be at the Sharp Park branch in Pacifica (which I believe was acquired in the last couple of years - good on them!).

Berkeley public library has copies of the JS edition for what that's worth..

[rahimnathwani]

What do you mean 'no one wanted it'?

Most library users select from the books on the shelf.

That's like saying you shouldn't write a book because no one wanted it in the past, before it existed.

[toast0]

Nobody requested it => no one wanted it.

[rahimnathwani]

SFPL doesn't have even one copy of SICP.

And I can't request a copy because it's too old.

Do you believe that no one in San Francisco ever wanted to read SICP?

[rahimnathwani]

If that's the case, then why do librarians curate collections? Why stock any book before a library user has requested it?

[so-cal-schemer]

Yes. I've found criteria for new books at public libraries to be very limiting. They usually will only acquire newly published books (published within a year or so). But they do get a discount from the publisher, perhaps 30%.

Basically, they will buy books that nobody's had a chance to review yet or talk about, but won't buy books published a year ago that everyone cites and recommends. It's a broken policy.

I'd say it is a way to avoid the high cost of books tho, in that they are a shared resource. Dozens of people may check out a single copy within a year. E-books at public libraries are more accessible, but only a finite number of copies may be accessed by patrons at a time - less accessible than you might think. Additionally, e-books are not owned, but leased. And the cost is substantial and comparable to the cost of a physical copy, and re-paid every few years.

Another way libraries avoid the cost of new books is by relying on other libraries to expand their collection. When my local library joined LINK+, for instance, they substantially decreased the amount of new books they would acquire, and it's stripping influence from the individual patron. Good luck borrowing a copy of Laws of Software Engineering [0] anywhere. Or Crafting Interpreters [1].

As far as university collections go, most have large libraries with huge collections that are available to borrow - somehow. But most of the books are very old. The new acquisitions are primarily digital and may only be accessed through a locked terminal or web portal. Whether the general public has access varies and often costs quite a bit or is free for the immediate community.

Here is info on borrowing at a few:

https://www.lib.berkeley.edu/find/borrow-renew

($100/yr for CA residents, limited access to the library, no remote access)

https://library.claremont.edu/borrowing/

(limited to nearby county residents, but free. no remote access or ebooks)

https://library.stanford.edu/about-stanford-libraries/visito...

(range of options: $1000/yr to $35/two-weeks, remote unclear)

I have had some luck accessing some e-books at some colleges, but for the most part you need to have a login. It really depends on their policies and licensing deals with digital publishers.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47847179

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40950235