[busterarm]

IYKYK. Hams are known for a distinctive personality type that can be at strong odds from other tech people and other comms people. Usually in ways that clash with consequences.

I know a few hams that are chill and they are precious doves. I know quite a few more who I won't even engage with for fear of crossing them and them dedicating their lives to making mine hell. Because I've seen them do it to others.

That's not _just_ the hams, mind you. This behavior is overrepresented in hackerspaces in general. But there's a lot of overlap between those groups. Hasn't changed much in the 40-some-odd years I've been involved there either.

[jimnotgym]

I have an amateur radio licence and I agree. One reason I rarely operate...

I always found it interesting how many useful little apps hams write, keep them closed source and then...die.

[toyg]

Could it be because of the history of radio and early electronics being full of inventors getting ripped off by unscrupulous parties...?

[fragmede]

Hurt people hurt people, as they say. The entire field is held back because of trauma. "I could invent something amazing but get screwed out of it because someone else has money and lawyers" is just no way to live. The problem for radio is I could invent the most magical amazing transmitter, but it's worth absolutely nothing if there's no corresponding receiver. Which is to say, open standards are everything. Meshtastic/MeshCore/etc are interesting because they're open. It doesn't have to be. Off-grid mesh communication is a solved problem, just buy a GoTenna. Problem is it's proprietary. But it works, with a whole lot less drama.

[jimnotgym]

Yes, and they extended that myth to the incredibly niche software they built that has a commercial value of...nil

[ted_dunning]

That is certainly the myth that drives this.

There is also a fair bit of demographics at play. Many of the people writing these little applications grew up and imprinted before open source was much of a thing.

[busterarm]

It's kind of alarming how much more enjoyable the less legal communities in the radio hobby are to spend time around.

[DrewADesign]

I get the sense that a lot of the hams I’ve met have a framed hall-monitor sash from their high school years.

I’ve been sniffing around it as a hobby for decades but there are just a ton of people involved that clearly are exorcising trauma from being bullied or feeling marginalized in their life on a whole. Following and enforcing the rules seemed like the beef big draw for a sadly large chunk of them.

[bobsomers]

I don't really think its fair to lump hams into that behavioral bucket. It's certainly a personality type that tends to get attracted to lots of different technical hobbies.

[mystraline]

> IYKYK. Hams are known for a distinctive personality type that can be at strong odds from other tech people and other comms people. Usually in ways that clash with consequences.

Yes, old mildly misogynist, mildly racist, wellakshually, holier than thou, pro-trumper types.

I was there at Dayton Hamvention (2024) when they had to turn off the 2M repeater because 2 or 3 of them got into a screaming match over trump.

Naturally, I skipped over any trump-flag hanging booth. But the hatred and extreme conservatism is everywhere in the community.

And its not my community any longer. I let my license lapse, and I will not renew. I also sold my radios, except for 2 2M handhelds, just on the off case SHTF.

I'm a radio hacker, not a ham. I'm no liddy elmer. And nor will I perpetrate shit like YL (you g lady) or OL (old lady), which is common vernacular.

[busterarm]

It's not even just a pro-trump thing. That's not even the thing particularly annoying about hams because that's annoying across all of society. I can tolerate disagreeing with peoples opinions but not disagreeable/disharmonioous behavior.

Hams act super gatekeepey and act insanely protective/defensive around things that don't actually belong to them. They tend to have a high sense of self-importance around their skillset and try to do their own "enforcement" of rules that they feel empowered to harass people about. Hams tend to be "fixated persons". They care about their personal capabilities and usually some made up authority they think that gives them. All so they can just endlessly chirp hello world at each other. They developed a skillset and then don't do anything useful for the community with it. Notice I said the community and not their community. They love building insular clubs. They act like authority figures _across the whole damn spectrum_ when their purview is tiny.

The coolest radio hacker I ever met was an ex Army radio guy and Desert Storm vet. He ran a licensed LPFM station somewhere in the rust belt but with a pirate radio mindset. Their transmit power was way above what the license allowed but they also weren't bothering anyone :). His station ran afrocentric community/educational content and he ran after school programs teaching teens in his community brodcasting/radio/electronics skills. He helped several of them obtain scholarships. I've rarely if ever seen hams do anything nearly that cool.

[ajsnigrutin]

It's a simple exam that 10yo kids pass all the time. If someone is complaining about the licencing process, the problem is on that individual, not the system.

Like with roads and cars, radio spectrum is a very limited and very shared resource, and there has to be some regulation, or else some Elon Musk-type person would already take it for themselves for a commercial reason.

It's also self-policed, so that means that hams have to find the problematic entities and hope that authorities with legal power act on those reports.

The devices can also be uncertified (self-certified by a ham technically), so you can cause all sorts of havoc for many other entities, like actual emergency services (a case not long ago in US) or worse.

If you are not able, or for some reason or another don't want to get licenced, there are other ways to communicate, like mentioned meshtastic, which doesn't require a licence on ISM bands, or PMR/FRS radios (or gmrs in us, which does require a licence but you don't have to learn the radio basics for the exam).

Again, like with roads and cars, you expect others there to be mentally capable enough to pass that simple exam and follow the basic rules on the air. If not, they can get a bicycle and argue on the bicycle lane with other cyclists. And the ham exam is much cheaper and easier than a driving exam (in most developed countries at least, the driving one costs 1keur++ if you finish optimally, whereas over here, a full intro to ham course (a few weeks, usually on zoom) with a printed book and the actual exam costs <100eur, even less with a pdf instead of a book)

[mystraline]

The problem isnt the test. In the USA the test is cheap. Books can easily be acquired online.

The problem is hams - the people who are habitually are on amateur radio.

I find them to be incredibly anti-digital, holier than thou, loud about hard-conservative positions, misogynist, racist, and more. And when Ive tried to further the art and science of radio comms, hams are some of the first to talk down what I contributed.

They are people who I dont, and dont want to associate myself with.

Ive also known others that made that assumption when I said I was a ham. Lots of people have had those experiences, and also chosen not to associate with them.

I'm sure this doesnt apply to "all Hams". It does apply to a supermajority in the USA, enough to say that I do not want to be a ham any longer. I already refused to communicate with them, nor associate with them.

[amatecha]

Yeah, all that stuff depends where you are located. Up here in Vancouver amateur radio community, any kind of bigoted/discriminatory/exclusionary crap is totally not accepted or tolerated. There are always people experimenting with new things, sharing knowledge/experience, helping each other out. Heck, I built a portable radio pack and made a blog post about it, and my local club included my post (with my permission) in their monthly newsletter. I've also contributed photos to them and attended numerous community events -- always 100% welcoming and there's a strong educational/sharing vibe to all their events. When I hear people complaining about "hams" I'm always thankful to have seen almost none of this stuff locally.

[dostick]

What is IYKYK ? If you know you know?

[DrewADesign]

IYKYK

[sweetheart]

yeah