[philwelch]

It's fairly uncontroversial historical fact that the Jews are originally from Palestine.

Why don't you do research on the early Zionists, if you're actually curious about the subject and not just trying to score points in an internet debate? Probably most of the early Zionists were very secularist.

[guelo]

Unfortunately I do not trust much of what I read about Israel, there is just too much propaganda from all sides. Everything is twisted for some cause. The only thing I know for certain is that the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 was probably a really bad idea since it has led to so many wars.

[philwelch]

If you don't want to inform yourself, please spare us your uninformed speculation.

[guelo]

And you can spare us your propaganda.

[philwelch]

What propaganda? You're contributing literally nothing to this discussion except to smear Israel with vague counterfactual innuendos, and accusing me of propaganda? I'm trying to be as fair and honest as I can be. What are you trying to do?