[madamelic]

I believe what their point is is that if you give people a "extract-needle-from-haystack" machine and then tell them they have to manually find where in the haystack the needle was, it defeats the purpose of having the machine.

With that said, a good RAG solution would come with metadata to point to where it was sourced from.

[palmotea]

> I believe what their point is is that if you give people a "extract-needle-from-haystack" machine and then tell them they have to manually find where in the haystack the needle was, it defeats the purpose of having the machine.

We've got to be careful to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

I'm not an LLM enthusiast, but I think you have actually compare it against what the alternative would really be. If you give the journalist a haystack but insufficient time to manually search it properly, they're going to have to take some shortcut. And using an LLM to sort through it and verifying it actually found a needle probably better than randomly sampling documents at random or searching for keywords.

[klausa]

I don't want to come off as an AI-maximalist or whatever, but, I mean, at some point, skill issue, right?

You can use Google to find you results reinforcing your belief that the earth is flat too; but we don't condemn Google as a helpful tool during research.

If you trust whatever the LLM spits out unconditionally, that's sorta on you. But they _can_ be helpful when treated as research assistants, not as oracles.

[Borealid]

This is a bogus analogy leaidng to a bogus conclusion.

If something points to the needle in the haytack (saying "this haystack has a needle positioned eighteen centimeters from the top and three left of center"), it's much easier to verify that indeed there is a needle there than it would be to find that needle in the first place.

If an LLM spits out a claim that something happened (citing a certain article), it's less work to read the article and verify the claim than it would be to DISCOVER the article in the first place.

In other words, LLMs can be a time-saving search engine, and the idea that it's just as much work to find+verify information as it is to have the LLM find it and then you verify it is hokum.

[madeofpalk]

when you use the extract-needle-from-haystack machine, verify that it actually extracted a needle.

that's much easier than manually extracting the needle yourself

[ihuman]

Another interpretation is if you have multiple haystacks, and the machine tells you which haystack likely has a needle in it. You still need to extract the needle yourself,