[christophilus]

This is why I’ve never understood the demand for a touchscreen on a laptop. All of my non-Mac laptops have touchscreens, and I basically never use the touch feature except by accident (e.g. a kid pointing and asking a question and causing some code to highlight).

[analog31]

For me it's vision and physical ergonomics. The GUI and mouse did great things for computing, but were never strictly safe from an ergonomic standpoint, and I see a lot of people walking around with carpal tunnel braces. Especially CAD operators and computer programmers.

After trying it out roughly every year, Ubuntu finally seems to have fairly transparent touch screen support, and I've given up on Windows. At a comfortable reading distance, with the laptop actually on my lap (as I'm typing now), I can reach out and touch the screen more easily and comfortably than manipulating the trackpad.

Getting good at this didn't happen overnight, and its behavior isn't identical to my Android or Apple tablets.

Precise cursor positioning is hit or miss, but it is with the mouse too. In either case, I usually get as close as I can, and then move the cursor with the arrow keys. Precise mouse work also gives me eyestrain headaches.

I can only do limited programming on the laptop anyway because the screen is too small. It could be that I'm a freak because I fall into the divide in between how people "should" use laptops and tablets. The programmers do think I'm a freak.

[TsiCClawOfLight]

For actually on the map, I find the trackpoint unbeatable. Much better than either touchpad or touchscreen.

[steveBK123]

I think the best use cases of iPad are basically bifurcated into:

1) Consumption device People reading, scrolling, watching videos. Nice on the sofa, in bed, whatever. Also this use case has a lot of older users driven by eyesight issues that make a bigger slightly further screen interface better. Also very intuitive to young children (funny how often this elderly/youth overlap rears its head).

2) Creative (not productivity/coding!) device Artists needing pencil & touch interface for precise tactile writing/drawing/editing

[paulcole]

> not productivity/coding!

You don’t think a non-artist, non-coder can be productive on an iPad?

Some jobs are heavily writing, reading, email/messaging, meetings, etc. Feel link those people can do quite well with an iPad, no?

[steveBK123]

Typing is subpar next to a Mac so by the time you put the case on it and are in similar size/weight class, for same/MORE money .. why bother with iPad ?

[chocochunks]

There's no pen input on a Mac, it's only really usable in one orientation and so sucks for reading more than a page or two of a PDF. Tablets are WAY more flexible in form factor. Apple unfortunately cripples the software, but I'd rather have a device that's 100% better at pen input and bunch of tasks that's 30% worse at typing.

[plaguuuuuu]

Instead of doing creative work on the iPad, it should really be used as an input device for the mac.

[chocochunks]

How do you mean? The entire iPad? Well this sucks because now you're carrying around an entire laptop and a tablet. Or do you mean using a pen with the Mac? Then it would need fundamental changes to use it well. Using a pen on a traditional laptop sucks more than a touchscreen on a traditional laptop. You need a really really good hinge to have it not be impacted by your arm, or you're forced to awkwardly hover and use minimal pressure. Bare minimum they'd have to add a 180 degree hinge so it can lie flat, or really a 360 one ideally.

With a tablet you get more freedom, not every task needs a real keyboard and sometimes even if it does it's better not attached to the device in wrong orientation.

[paulcole]

Hear me out. Do the creative work on the iPad.

[mjlee]

The single purpose nature of the iPad makes it pretty good for quite a few tasks. I find it much easier to stay focused. I’m not saying that justifies the cost, but seeing as I have one anyway, it’s what I use for a lot of my writing like tasks.

Of course, you can now multi window in iPadOS but the experience is awful enough that I don’t.

[somebehemoth]

Because it can do both. That may not be valuable to everyone, but it is a beneficial feature for many people. Also, Apple's keyboard case has a fantastic keyboard and trackpad that is a pleasure to type on.

[ako]

Typing on a Mac is also subpar: I use one mechanical keyboard that can easily switch between Mac and iPad. Same typing experience on both.

[paulcole]

It’s not subpar, it’s just different. I find it to be relaxing to be productive on my iPad for a lot of work tasks.

Why would I want to touch a computer when I’m at home when I can use my iPad? Computers aren’t relaxing or fun to use.

[swiftcoder]

> Computers aren’t relaxing or fun to use

[citation needed]

[endemic]

> demand for a touchscreen on a laptop

My take is that consumers didn't want this; it was manufacturers trying to "add value" or sell something new. Same as the recent "AI PC" craze.

[christophilus]

I don’t think so. It was one of the most requested features for the Framework 13 for some reason.

[samtheDamned]

I was one of those requests. I have used 2in1s since college because I like the flexibility in positioning that 2in1s provide that regular laptops rarely or never do. The ability to open them to nearly 180 degrees when I'm using them on a surface that is low relative to me, I also like to hook up a second portable monitor and keyboard/mouse and fold it into a tent shape to provide more room. I use "tablet mode" for reading due to the smaller footprint (this is especially useful on public transit), but with the right desktop (Fedora Gnome for me) the rest of the laptop is relatively comfortable to use in tablet mode as well. When the Framework 12 was announced I immediately snatched one up and it has been excellent so far at all of these.

I will concede, though, that for a regular laptop without 2in1 functionality, I am a little confused at the value proposal. Maybe someone wants a comfortable pinch and zoom experience?

[cosmic_cheese]

Touch on standard laptops really doesn't make any sense. At most it should be a BTO option, not something that comes stock. That capacitative sensing capability doesn't come for free after all (and not just in terms of monetary costs) and users who know that they'll never use it shouldn't have to pay for it.

[vincent-manis]

I'm on a convertible as I read this comments thread; I'm typing this comment on the keyboard, and scrolling the comments via the touchscreen.

I have never bought the argument that there should be one modality of input (or output). I'm basically a keyboard guy, but I use a pointing stick, mouse, trackball, or stylus/touchscreen as appropriate. Some applications benefit from direct contact, others really prefer keyboard input. Further, various disabilities prioritize modalities as well: someone may have serious trouble typing or pointing, and visually-impaired people may prefer voice and speech.

So all these rhapsodies of fingers flying across the keyboard or pointing on a touchscreen as the One True Way miss the point. I want my computing devices to support the kind of interaction I want to engage in, which differs from application to application and time to time.

[mm0lqf]

this. it took me 2 years to notice my T14s even had a touchscreen

its useless

flexes too much to actually use it

[basisword]

It was one of those basic things Jobs was right about years ago when people were clamouring for it. Holding your arm out to a laptop screen is tiring and pointless. If only they'd stuck with his other bit os wisdom that phone screens should be small enough to use one handed.