[AJ007]

Not sure how your last point matters if 27b can run on consumer hardware, besides being hosted by any company which the user could certainly trust more than anthropic.

OpenAI & Anthropic are just lying to everyone right now because if they can't raise enough money they are dead. Intelligence is a commodity, the semiconductor supply chain is not.

[datadrivenangel]

The challenge is token speed. I did some local coding yesterday with qwen3.6 35b and getting 10-40 tokens per second means that the wall time is much longer. 20 tokens per second is a bit over a thousand tokens per minute, which is slower than the the experience you get with Claude Code or the opus models.

Slower and worse is still useful, but not as good in two important dimensions.

[fnordpiglet]

Also benchmark measures are not empirical experience measures and are well gamed. As other commenters have said the actual observed behavior is inferior, so it’s not just speed.

It’s ludicrous to believe a small parameter count model will out perform a well made high parameter count model. That’s just magical thinking. We’ve not empirically observed any flattening of the scaling laws, and there’s no reason to believe the scrappy and smart qwen team has discovered P=NP, FTL, or the magical non linear parameter count scaling model.

[dTal]

Ooh, car analogy time!

It's kinda like saying a car with a 6L engine will always outperform a car with a 2L engine. There are so many different engineering tradeoffs, so many different things to optimize for, so many different metrics for "performance", that while it's broadly true, it doesn't mean you'll always prefer the 6L car. Maybe you care about running costs! Maybe you'd rather own a smaller car than rent a bigger one. Maybe the 2L car is just better engineered. Maybe you work in food delivery in a dense city and what you actually need is a 50cc moped, because agility and latency are more important than performance at the margins.

And if you're the only game in town, and you only sell 6L behemoths, and some upstart comes along and starts selling nippy little 2L utility vehicles (or worse - giving them away!) you should absolutely be worried about your lunch. Note that this literally happened to the US car industry when Japanese imports started becoming popular in the 80s...

[anon373839]

This is just blind belief. The model discussed in this topic already outperforms “well made” frontier LLMs of 12-18 months ago. If what you wrote is true, that wouldn’t have been possible.

[datadrivenangel]

It's amazing that we can run models better than state of the art ~36 months ago on local consumer devices!