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by drob518 58 days ago
They were paying KKK members and Nazis. The scam was roughly the same as firemen paying arsonists to justify their salaries.
5 comments

Like many NGOs/NPOs they suffer from perverse incentives: reduce or solve the problem and their reason to be disappears and the directors and higher staff no longer have well paying cushy jobs. You see this in NGOs "helping" addicts, homeless, etc. On paper they have a well meaning goal, in practice the goal is mostly for show and most of the money goes to paying salaries.
>The scam was roughly the same as firemen paying arsonists to justify their salaries.

What about paying low level arsonists to rat out their boss?

Private non-profits don’t do that. Police do that.
Everything from dog fighting rings to child trafficking has dedicated non-profit organizations with paid or volunteer staff doing investigative work. They collect OSINT, do surveillance, and yes, pay informants. As long as you don't break the law in the process (like doing surveillance from private property), you can build evidence to turn over to law enforcement to help open a case.

Something important to note here is informants aren't always in the organization or participating in the activity. It could be a truck stop attendant who texts you when the same guy stops in to buy a case of water and then slips it under the roll up door on his cargo van, or a dishwasher at a cafe who noticed a group of guys with the same tattoo. Things that on their own don't rise to the level of someone calling the police. Payments help people who otherwise would keep their mouth shut because they are in financial situations where they can't afford to lose their job.

Why? It's not obvious why only cops can pay money for informants. You might say that they're paying criminals, but that's not clear either. The US has quite liberal free speech laws. You can say a lot of objectionable things without violating any laws.
> You might say that they're paying criminals, but that's not clear either. The US has quite liberal free speech laws.

You specified paying arsonists in your first comment.

I assume arson is a criminal action and not protected by free speech.

It's not illegal to give a criminal money. People donate to Trump all the time.
(I think they're probably giving to a PAC or a business, etc.)
True, like wire fraud and money laundering.
I didn’t say they were paying criminals. I said they were paying KKK and Nazis. I made an analogy to firemen and arsonists to make the point that they were fraudulently creating demand for their services, not to suggest that who they were paying were criminals. It’s not illegal on the face to be in the KKK or to be a Nazi, though certainly member of those groups have committed crimes in the past. The SPLC was engaging in fraud (allegedly) by both supporting hate groups while raising money from their donors to counter hate groups. And they were setting up fraudulent bank accounts to hide the money flows.

Here’s the indictment. Read it yourself. https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1437146/dl

If non-profits don't do that, what is SPLC being indicated for?
"In 2014, F-9 entered the headquarters of a violent extremist group and stole 25 boxes of their documents. F-9 coordinated payment for the copying of the materials with a high-level SPLC employee who had knowledge the documents had been stolen."

You are defending the KKK.

Seems like you’re lashing out with nonsense.
It is a copy-paste from the actual indictment. The people accusing SPLC of financing the KKK are literally putting in writing they paid informants to cripple the KKK.
Certainly checkbook journalism has had a past in the USA, but I don't recall anyone ever being charged with a serious crime over it.
They were paying people to infiltrate the KKK and Nazi groups. It is the same as the arson investigator paying someone to hang out with the kids who play with matches to see who is starting the fires.

The only "criminal" thing they did was encouraging non-white people to use their right to vote. How dare they do such a thing before the mid-term elections!

I never doubted for a second that someone at the DoJ wrote a bunch of words. Unfortunately we have good cause to call them into question.
True. Legal reporting has been focusing on the “presumption of regularity” as having been eroded significantly by this administration.

“The presumption of regularity (omnia praesumuntur rite et solemniter esse acta) is a legal principle assuming that public officials and government agencies properly perform their duties, act in good faith, and follow legal procedures.”

>They were paying people to infiltrate the KKK and Nazi groups.

Is there even the slightest bit of proof to this claim? Has SPLC released details on this yet?

Because the crime is not sending KKK and neonazi groups more than a million dollars.

It’s that the committed wire fraud and money laundering to do it - allegedly.

>The only "criminal" thing they did was encouraging non-white people to use their right to vote.

The indictment is linked above. You should read it.

>Is there even the slightest bit of proof to this claim?

How dishonest are you? Very. Here is a copy-paste _from the indictment itself_ :

"In 2014, F-9 entered the headquarters of a violent extremist group and stole 25 boxes of their documents. F-9 coordinated payment for the copying of the materials with a high-level SPLC employee who had knowledge the documents had been stolen."

>The indictment is linked above. You should read it.

Right back at you.