[heavyset_go]

> If it's such a superior product that people want despite the tradeoffs, why don't they just fund a company to create such a phone? Why doesn't anyone?

Because legislation is direct and gives better results to consumers. Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C.

There's no reason to jump through extra hoops and rely on the whims of investors to do something good for the people.

[jpfromlondon]

>Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C

Short term thinking, if anyone invents a significantly better connector the eu will lag a decade while they clear the red tape, it hampers innovation inside the bloc people who might otherwise be concocting their own improved connector.

[lxgr]

> it hampers innovation inside the bloc people who might otherwise be concocting their own improved connector.

You know what, I'm absolutely fine with that.

I still remember when every single manufacturer had their own shitty 10-30 pin connector that effectively did the exact same thing: Transfer some current, analog audio, and some USB data. It was absolutely not worth the mutual incompatibility (you'd actually have to always carry your own charger and could not borrow one).

If some amazing new technology comes around that needs more than 240W charging or 80 Gbit/s data transfer to smartphones and can't be retrofitted into the USB-C form factor, let's take the time to change the law.

> if anyone invents a significantly better connector the eu will lag a decade while they clear the red tape

You seem to be misremembering how it actually played out: We didn't end up with the EU stranded on some standard, quite the opposite: The EU effectively forced Apple (the last non-negligible non-USB-C holdout) to switch to USB-C globally.

[ben_w]

(1) The EU fundamentally didn't care which standard so long as there was one; they only forced this because Apple dragged their feet with their own proprietary thing that wasn't a significant advantage. The other end of Apple's Lightning port being a USB port does not suggest it added anything except deliberate incompatibility.

(2) what would "significantly better" even look like? USB-C can do 120 watts, enough to fill a 20 Wh battery in 10 minutes, except the batteries themselves aren't ready to charge that fast.

(3) if someone somehow manages to make a significant advance, nothing prevents them from having two ports. Or indeed lobbying for a law change on the basis of a tangible thing they can demonstrate rather than a hypothetical that still hasn't happened in all the time since these discussions began.

[okanat]

(4) Or just as the law states, you can update the regulation accordingly. There are avenues of update just in the law. The connector should be just modern enough. At the same time I do believe thermodynamics itself will be the limit and 120 W is more than enough for any phone.

[ssl-3]

The same Europeans that were miles ahead with their GSM standard?

We can compare that to the US. Here, we stayed stuck with power-thirsty analog phones for many years before bouncing through a litany of mutually-incompatible digital non-standards...and finally landed on the ~same actual-standards that Europe adopted.

I think they'll be OK. (I think the rest of us will be OK, too.)

[BenFranklin100]

With that attitude, we’d still be using D-sub connectors.

[tossaway0]

I assume OP thinks more like me: the EU will move to the next standard in a reasonable amount of time after it's available.

I'll be the first to complain if the new standard isn't adopted in due time, but as a strong example I'm still very content with how the GSM legislation standard has played out.

[BenFranklin100]

You miss my point. The ‘new standard’ will be settled on by various committees each composed of different people with different priorities including maintaining the status quo. It will take years to potentially decades to settle on any technologically superior alternatives.

Design by committee is how Europe works. It’s also a reason Europe moves slower and is less innovative than America.

[okanat]

Europe is not less innovative. Many advanced machinery that makes everything else originate and get perfected in Europe.

EU is way more efficient in making citizen-friendly laws too.

The USA just likes to splurge unnecessary amount of money and call that "innovation" where there isn't any. They can do that because they have lots of money and infinite debt limit due to US Dollar's special status. This also makes everything else expensive for other players in the world. Remove the special status and see how the worlds change.

[account42]

D-sub connectors are still pretty common in embedded applications.

[eru]

What does any deity have to do with it? Btw, has anyone done a post mortem analysis of that mandate? I wonder if it delivered what it promised. I doubt it:

All they saved consumers from is buying a 5 dollar replacement cable.

The EU certainly hasn't done such an assessment yet.

The predicted savings of a quarter billion Euro come mostly from unbundling chargers, which they could have forced down customers throats without also making technical mandates about how customers are allowed to charge.

[clownpenis_fart]

Unbundling charger without standardizing the connectors would result in every manufacturer using their own proprietary bespoke charging connectors. Which is exactly what the situation was before usb was made mandatory.

How much cool aid do you have to drink to genuinely believe the corporate argument that using proprietary connectors is "innovative"?

[eru]

> Unbundling charger without standardizing the connectors would result in every manufacturer using their own proprietary bespoke charging connectors. Which is exactly what the situation was before usb was made mandatory.

Eh, no? USB-C was already pretty much the standard before, and you could plug in lightning cable with a cheap adapter cable.

[thrownthatway]

Not even that.

Consumers still need to buy replacement cables, because they break.

And the USB-C cable end connector is a fragile piece of shit designed by committee and forced upon everyone buy another committee, neither of which must’ve had a single mechanic engineer even once walk passed their bike shed.

Future historians will do a postmortem on the EU and discover the USB-C enforcement act as an inflection point that marked the downer trend to the EU’s eventual collapse, and the reclamation of its land and people to the great nation of Russia, where it always belonged.

Or some other equally as dreadful outcome befitting the UBS-C Bike Shed & Enforcement Committee formerly know as the European Union.

[sham1]

> Not even that. > > Consumers still need to buy replacement cables, because they break. > > And the USB-C cable end connector is a fragile piece of shit designed by committee and forced upon everyone buy another committee, neither of which must’ve had a single mechanic engineer even once walk passed their bike shed.

Well, the USB committee did ask Apple for the superior connector, but for whatever reason they said no. So we're stuck with this.

OTOH, USB-C is not nearly as bad as your bizarre post would seem to imply. It could be better, but as we know from experience with things like micro-USB, it could be much, much worse.

> Future historians will do a postmortem on the EU and discover the USB-C enforcement act as an inflection point that marked the downer trend to the EU’s eventual collapse, and the reclamation of its land and people to the great nation of Russia, where it always belonged. > > Or some other equally as dreadful outcome befitting the UBS-C Bike Shed & Enforcement Committee formerly know as the European Union.

Russia can't even handle Ukraine, a country significantly smaller in population, economy, and land area than Russia. And you think that they could take on the EU‽ A block, mind you, which has more population and a significantly larger economy. Oh, also nukes.

And you think that the EU would fall in this case because of... USB-C? Please explain the mechanism which would lead to this situation.

[eru]

> Well, the USB committee did ask Apple for the superior connector, but for whatever reason they said no. So we're stuck with this.

They didn't need to ban all other connectors..

[sham1]

Well good thing is that they didn't. The only thing you need is to provide a USB-C port for charging. Nothing stops a manufacturer adding additional ports for charging, data sharing etc.

So Apple could give people the ability to use their oh-so-superior Lightning cable while also being able to use USB-C for charging. If nothing else, it means that there are no longer any "does anyone have an iPhone charger" discussions at parties because people can just charge all their phones with USB-C.

[eru]

> Well good thing is that they didn't. The only thing you need is to provide a USB-C port for charging. Nothing stops a manufacturer adding additional ports for charging, data sharing etc.

That's a bit silly. There's only so much space in eg a phone.

[ssl-3]

Apple switched to USB C years before legal standardization took place.

(actually, which single-vendor connector are we mourning, here? I forget.)

[account42]

Companies often comply with upcoming/expected legislation ahead of time if its expected to be cheaper to do so rather than having to rush things afterwards.

[eru]

Yes, Apple switched to USB-C for some of their stuff.

So I'm not quite so sure why the EU needed to outlaw alternative chargers.

[fl4regun]

I don't understand your issue with USB C. Mini and micro USB connectors routinely got loose and fell out of multiple devices I owned, USB C is everywhere now and I have not encountered such issues.

[account42]

The only issue I had with USB C has been lint collecting at the bottom of the port that would then prevent the cable from plugging in far enough for a good connection. Far easier to clean that than replacing the connector though.

[thrownthatway]

The Lighnting connector and its port are superior in every way.

[eru]

Physically, maybe. (I don't know.) Legally and economically, I don't think Samsung can just use lightning without having to pay Apple.

[thrownthatway]

Without the EU mandate, perhaps I would still have a Lightning port in my instead of the currently broken USB-C port.

I never had a Lightning port fail.

[ChoGGi]

That's the one where the springs are on the device instead of the cable yea?

[fl4regun]

how so? I genuinely don't understand, as someone who has a phone with the lightning connector and other devices with USB C

[eru]

I don't mind USB-C. Most of my devices have USB-C charging, and it works well.

I mind bureaucrats locking that in.

> Future historians will do a postmortem on the EU and discover the USB-C enforcement act as an inflection point that marked the downer trend to the EU’s eventual collapse, and the reclamation of its land and people to the great nation of Russia, where it always belonged.

Haha, what? I like to complain about this piece of legislation, but it's not that important. And it's not like Russia has better policy. Oh, just the opposite. (Like waging wars they can't win, or running crazy high corruption.)

[thrownthatway]

Thanks for decontextualising that paragraph by not including the following paragraph.

I really appreciate it, keep up with the good work.

Bloody Clippers.

You always got to watch out for the Clippers, they’ll take whatever you say or write and clip it out of context and make it mean something completely different to what you really said.

The European Union will fall to Russia while they're looking for a USB-C charge cable that works, or looking for a charged swappable battery for their MANPADs.

[Toutouxc]

There’s nothing important in the last paragraph.

[eru]

> Thanks for decontextualising that paragraph by not including the following paragraph.

Eh, you know that people can just scroll up?

> The European Union will fall to Russia while they're looking for a USB-C charge cable that works, or looking for a charged swappable battery for their MANPADs.

Are you willing to bet on this?

[thrownthatway]

Yeah, sure, $10?

$10 says that by 2040 Europe will institute massive concessions to Russia for helping deal with the Islamic Caliphate in Europe.

Which wouldn’t have happened if Europe had been paying more attention to stuff that mattered, and less on which charge port people had on their phones.